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The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

economist.com

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Re: The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

#11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some more context around 3% of the world population died in World War 2 which was over 6 years.

I don't think you are talking about the same number. Original mentioned that the number of deaths in 2020 would be 3% more than the number of deaths in 2019, not that 3% of the population had died. That would be 240 Million people!

Oh thats fair I should have done the math

Re: The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

#12
post #9

This seems to assume all of the excess deaths are directly attributable to Covid-19, but shouldn't we consider the possibility that our reaction to Covid-19 could also play a role, things like: generally increased levels of stress, suicide rate, elderly more depressed due to no in-person visitors, less exercise?

And lots of people avoiding the doctor’s office or hospital because they are afraid to go.

Re: The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

#14
post #9

This seems to assume all of the excess deaths are directly attributable to Covid-19, but shouldn't we consider the possibility that our reaction to Covid-19 could also play a role, things like: generally increased levels of stress, suicide rate, elderly more depressed due to no in-person visitors, less exercise?

In some places, excess death is now lower than recent average years, probably due to less commuting and other dangerous activities.

Re: The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

#15
post #9

This seems to assume all of the excess deaths are directly attributable to Covid-19, but shouldn't we consider the possibility that our reaction to Covid-19 could also play a role, things like: generally increased levels of stress, suicide rate, elderly more depressed due to no in-person visitors, less exercise?

I'm looking into this gap right now. In the US for example, deaths from dementia so far this year are much higher than the average for the past five years (up until ~Aug 15). There's also a not insignificant amount of notes saying deaths are being underreported in a lot of jurisdictions.

Pretty much across the board jumps for most major causes of death. Haven't pulled in anything on suicides yet. Interestingly though, deaths from lower respiratory disease are down for all regions of the US. I wondered how much that has to do with less traffic/air pollution which might otherwise aggravate that?

Re: The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

#16
post #9

This seems to assume all of the excess deaths are directly attributable to Covid-19, but shouldn't we consider the possibility that our reaction to Covid-19 could also play a role, things like: generally increased levels of stress, suicide rate, elderly more depressed due to no in-person visitors, less exercise?

If anything I think most people (at least where I live in Colorado) are getting significantly more exercise. Everyone is outside biking, hiking, running, paddling, fishing, etc. They may not be doing a Pilates class or on a treadmill, but are exercising none the less. And with no endless stream of school events and kids sports, I can go hiking every day after work if I want. I've never spent this much time outside since I was probably 12 years old.

Re: The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

#17
post #5
post #3

Meanwhile, the much maligned Sweden is experiencing no uptick in deaths: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ , and US death counts are dropping as well.

I see that sweden's new deaths have gone down (but their overall deaths are much worse than other scandinavian countries), but the US graphs shows no slowing of the death rate that I can tell.

It's funny that many arguments against social democratic economic policies from Nordic countries are on the basis of them being smaller countries and therefore not comparable. But somehow when it's a contagious disease though, we should totally use them as a model example..

Re: The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

#18
post #4

For some context at 1M deaths so far, and pessimistically if we end 2020 with 1.5M global deaths, this would be https://ourworldindata.org/births-and-deaths ), and with most deaths being of the elderly.

Of the 1.5 M, only a small fraction would be from Covid 19 exclusively; CDC states 94% of deaths listing Covid 19 as a cause had co-morbidities, meaning other things that they also died from other than Covid 19. So the actual increase in deaths from 2019 to 2020 will probably be significantly lower than 3%.

Re: The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

#19
One thing I don't see being taken into account in articles like this one is that the vaccines will not be 100% effective. The US FDA has set the bar at 50% effective. So even people who get the vaccine can still become infected. Maybe with less severe disease and less ability to spread it further, but we don't know that yet. On a whole population level a vaccine will be a major help in reducing the effects of the virus, but on an individual level it's not going to mean things go back to normal because many people will not be fully protected. So besides "Access to the safety thus promised will be unequal", the access to safety itself is questionable. If I understand that "50% effective" correctly, getting a vaccine does not mean you are safe and free to walk through the world.

Re: The Covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show

#20
post #19

One thing I don't see being taken into account in articles like this one is that the vaccines will not be 100% effective. The US FDA has set the bar at 50% effective. So even people who get the vaccine can still become infected. Maybe with less severe disease and less ability to spread it further, but we don't know that yet. On a whole population level a vaccine will be a major help in reducing the effects of the vir…

Not to mention people who will refuse to get the vaccine, and those people are more likely to be carrying it anyway due to misbehavior.
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