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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#891

Post by [deleted] »

zaroth wrote: post #890
gpm wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that first sentence isn't what you meant then I'm afraid I've totally missed your point, and continue to miss it.

Perhaps I don't know what you mean "monopoly on iPhone Apps". I said they don't have a monopoly on iPhone or iOS, because such a statement is nonsensical. It seems to me that you moved the goalposts to talking about iPhone apps . I mean, they obviously don't have a monopoly on iPhone apps either (probably 99.99% of all apps are not written by Apple). What they have is significant and costly contractual terms which th…

[deleted]

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#892

Post by rodgerd »

vorpalhex wrote: post #621
ta8964586 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious, how would you give users "the freedom to stop all data collection by these devices" without some kind of walled garden. Is the solution something like flatpack for all apps? but then how do you make sure all apps don't just refuse to work without permission to collect data or manage to collect information without users knowing? You can't force developers to be honest about what their app does witho…

You can monitor what calls an app makes. LittleSnitch on Mac is an example example of this. There are going to be nefarious actors who still manage to bypass it, and there are going to be risks outside of a walled garden - and that's a meaningful choice we can provide users. "Hey, you can stay inside the app store and get these promises, or you can install what you want and risk X, Y and Z." Android does this.. decen…

Did you just tell everyone not interested in being a full-time sysadmin and security specialist for their phone to go fuck themselves?

Yes, I do believe you did.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#893

Post by rodgerd »

systemvoltage wrote: post #176
sneak wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If users didn’t want these things, users wouldn’t buy them. For the vast majority of people, and iPhone is way, way better than a computer that can run any app, precisely because it can’t run any app they click on. I’m a hacker, so I would love to be able to install any software I want on my iPhone, and introspect it in other ways. Most users, however, would have a way worse experience using their phone if they were…

Your style of thinking cannot be popular on HN, but we all know why this is good for the consumer - in this day and age, businesses will completely rip apart the consumer in every which way. They'll not miss a chance to fuck the consumer's privacy, financial state, psychology, innocence and addiction. HN crowd wants something they can run sudo on. But people here have not got a slighest idea of how to run a device fo…

> HN crowd wants something they can run sudo on.

The HN crowd want something that their employers can loot and pillage the private lives of their victims with.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#894

Post by rodgerd »

nicetryguy wrote: post #388
clansimus wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because "great for developers" just shouldn't matter. It should be about what the consumers want.

That's an easy opinion to have when it's not your livelihood. Does consumer centric focus necessitate draconian developer policies?

If your livelihood relies on, say, gambling for 10 year olds, or rooting around in my personal information without my knowledge or meaningful consent, then I will be delighted for you to starve in a gutter.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#895

Post by rodgerd »

gowld wrote: post #239
burlesona wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it means Sony has to add Steam to PS5 or else it is narrow and arbitrary. To me the iPhone is a console, end of story. If you like the console experience, it’s a great device. If you don’t, there are a million android and even alternative OS based phones out there which are more like a PC. If you want your phone to be a PC, you should do what most people around the world do and buy one of those. Instead we have…

How does letting me have a PC experience hurt your console experience? What gives you the right to force Epic into a console experience for everyone?

What gives Epic the right to force me to use their store?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#896

Post by rebelos »

valuearb wrote: post #812
stefan_ wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the rules say organizing a price fixing ring is illegal. The result of which was literally to simultaneously raise prices for consumers across all platforms. It's particularly ironic in this case because the whole point of the exercise for Apple was to increase prices so they could still charge their extortionate 30%. Amazon wasn't remotely that greedy.

That’s the silliest perspective on this case you could have. Apple gave publishers the right to set their own prices, but in return required they don’t undercut those prices on other platforms. Apple had only a a small market share at the time. Publishers could have said, nah, we are happy with Amazon, and refused to agree to Apple’s terms. This is about as clear a free market as one gets, that it became an antitrust…

"It's awful that a $2 trillion tech company's price fixing conspiracy flatlined and consumers in 2020 pay really low ebook prices. What is American justice coming to?"

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#897

Post by nodamage »

gpm wrote: post #887
nodamage wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Eastman Kodak is viewed in legal circles as the exception to the general rule of disallowing single-brand relevant markets, due to the particular circumstances of the case. In Kodak , customers originally purchased Kodak copiers without any restrictions, and then several years later Kodak changed their policy and stopped selling repair parts to third-party servicers, which left customers locked into buying…

If I was epic I think I would be focusing on the fact that consumers generally don't have any idea about the restriction on payment providers, and that the terms of that restriction have changed over time. But that gives up on half the case, so we'll see what they do.

That's true, but for Epic's tying claim they've argued that the tying product is iOS app distribution and the tied product is payment processing, which again relies on establishing that iOS app distribution is in fact a valid antitrust market.

If that fails, they might be able to amend their claim to argue that iPhones are the tying product, but then that opens up a different set of questions about how much market power Apple has in the overall smartphone market.

(They also need to establish that payment processing is actually a distinct product or service from app distribution, which is not necessarily obviously true and depends on a separate set of factors.)

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#898

Post by rodgerd »

AlexandrB wrote: post #86

From https://appfairness.org/our-vision/ > No app store owner should prohibit third parties from offering competing app stores on the app store owner’s platform, or discourage developers or consumers from using them. I don't disagree but does this mean Sony should allow, for example, Steam to be installed on the PS5? Or is the definition of "App Store" used here narrow and arbitrary?

> Or is the definition of "App Store" used here narrow and arbitrary?

The whole thing is narrow and arbitary in service of the dishonesty of the companies involved. If they care about choice, why is Epic forcing me to install their store to access games on a PC or phone? If they care about consumer choice, why can fans of Joe Rogan no longer access his material without becoming Spotify customers? Why do Epic and Spotify not have the courage to compete on a level playing field?

None of this is aimed at consumer choice. None of the companies have a commitment to that, or I could have downloaded Borderlands 3 for the PC on the same day via Steam, the Epic Game store, or the Windows store. Instead, Epic chose to make it an exclusive to prevent consumer choice.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#899

Post by Aldo_MX »

abc-xyz wrote: post #582
Aldo_MX wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the recent jailbreaks involve Safari vulnerabilities, so you don't even need to install an app to compromise your iPhone, the walled garden is just security through obscurity.

Let’s compare malware on Windows, OSX, Android vs iOS, shall we?

That's like saying "let's compare species of ants on Africa, Asia, America vs Antarctica", you would need to melt the ice first; iOS is uncharted territory.
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