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Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

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Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#201

Post by crowbahr »

j_crick wrote: post #88
SonOfLilit wrote: post #18

Hopefully someone in the field will read this and be able to answer my question: I've spent a lot of time googling research about animal intelligence, and I now know a bunch of things intelligent animals can do, but I have no idea where their limits are, what they can't do. Everything published uses such... nonflexible tasks. If we're trying to measure general intelligence, why isn't anybody trying to teach corvids,…

Perhaps you might be interested in this project, orthogonal to your question: https://www.hungerforwords.com/

Orthogonal maybe: but it's still hard to see it as anything other than testing the associative memory of a dog, rather than intelligence. It's a step below problem solving.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#202

Post by monkeybutton »

gonehome wrote: post #189
zw123456 wrote: post #175

I have a personal experience story regarding crows. This is completely anecdotal of course but, to me, compelling. I live on an island near Seattle, very quiet and rural. We have a lot of wild life. One morning I was woke by persistent crowing by... well crows. Black Crows (not the band). Having been awoke from wonderful REM sleep I was understandably annoyed. So I went out to the street in front of my house and grab…

There are other cases of them bringing shiny rocks and glass to humans as gifts. I think this is well established.

Your comment reminded me of another article about crows. It sounds like gifting is a known phenomenon but isn't that well established or researched.

https://www.audubon.org/news/did-crows-actually-make-these-g...

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#203

Post by SonOfLilit »

jancsika wrote: post #194
SonOfLilit wrote: post #18

Hopefully someone in the field will read this and be able to answer my question: I've spent a lot of time googling research about animal intelligence, and I now know a bunch of things intelligent animals can do, but I have no idea where their limits are, what they can't do. Everything published uses such... nonflexible tasks. If we're trying to measure general intelligence, why isn't anybody trying to teach corvids,…

> I know at least octopi can use computer screens, and I know they enjoy hard puzzles that reward them with food, so it should be easy to teach them some computer puzzle game? I'm not sure it's that easy. For example, suppose a race of hyperintelligent octopuses beam down and decide to study your intelligence. They notice in one test that if you begin scrambling eggs for breakfast and they cut off both your arms at t…

I mean, they'd be right that my intelligence is not as well distributed as theirs. But that's a specific feature of their intelligence, that's not general intelligence.

If an octopus can beat me at Sokoban, I don't care whether it thinks with its brain or its arms, I would like to hire it as a programmer for my startup. If an octopus tries its best to play Sokoban, beats the tutorial but can't figure out the levels with actual puzzles, I won't consider it to possess general intelligence, even if it kicks my ass at say visual perception cognitive tests.

(Am I missing your point somehow? I think my answer is relevant but I'm not 100% sure)

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#205

Post by mcswell »

Damorian wrote: post #121

One particularly early, groggy morning I was walking into work and there were a few crows pecking around the grass by the sidewalk. Lost in my thoughts I hear a raspy old man say, "good morning". I look around and don't see anyone, then I look at one of the crows and it looks me right in the eye and repeats, "good morning". I doubted my sanity for a few days before confiding in my wife what happened and was surprised…

So can ravens, but all they know how to say is "Nevermore."

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#206

Post by mcswell »

jonplackett wrote: post #17

You can tell how much smarter crows are just by going to feed the ducks. The crows watch YOU and your arm, predict where you'll throw and move there in advance, often catching things in mid-air. It's not just reaction speed, they're watching really carefully and making guesses. The ducks are next on the spectrum, they spot it first (after it lands) and geese are the dumbest, the feed can hit them right in the head, a…

And after the geese, there are the scientists: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/5418462023483022/

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#207

Post by dboreham »

SonOfLilit wrote: post #203
jancsika wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know at least octopi can use computer screens, and I know they enjoy hard puzzles that reward them with food, so it should be easy to teach them some computer puzzle game? I'm not sure it's that easy. For example, suppose a race of hyperintelligent octopuses beam down and decide to study your intelligence. They notice in one test that if you begin scrambling eggs for breakfast and they cut off both your arms at t…

I mean, they'd be right that my intelligence is not as well distributed as theirs. But that's a specific feature of their intelligence, that's not general intelligence. If an octopus can beat me at Sokoban, I don't care whether it thinks with its brain or its arms, I would like to hire it as a programmer for my startup. If an octopus tries its best to play Sokoban, beats the tutorial but can't figure out the levels w…

John Searle Octopus Test

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#209

Post by UI_at_80x24 »

liveoneggs wrote: post #190
zw123456 wrote: post #175

I have a personal experience story regarding crows. This is completely anecdotal of course but, to me, compelling. I live on an island near Seattle, very quiet and rural. We have a lot of wild life. One morning I was woke by persistent crowing by... well crows. Black Crows (not the band). Having been awoke from wonderful REM sleep I was understandably annoyed. So I went out to the street in front of my house and grab…

crows and other birds are very good at recognizing faces so they absolutely know it's you

  What makes Corvids truly fascinating, is that their offspring will be taught to recognize them too.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#210

Post by grawprog »

SonOfLilit wrote: post #203
jancsika wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know at least octopi can use computer screens, and I know they enjoy hard puzzles that reward them with food, so it should be easy to teach them some computer puzzle game? I'm not sure it's that easy. For example, suppose a race of hyperintelligent octopuses beam down and decide to study your intelligence. They notice in one test that if you begin scrambling eggs for breakfast and they cut off both your arms at t…

I mean, they'd be right that my intelligence is not as well distributed as theirs. But that's a specific feature of their intelligence, that's not general intelligence. If an octopus can beat me at Sokoban, I don't care whether it thinks with its brain or its arms, I would like to hire it as a programmer for my startup. If an octopus tries its best to play Sokoban, beats the tutorial but can't figure out the levels w…

I might be wrong, but I think the point of the parent comment was more along the lines of, the things we find to be 'general intelligence' may not be as general as we believe.

Something like your sokoban or 2048 example, which you view as a thing that any being with general intelligence should be able to solve, may not be such general intelligence thing and more of a 'human specific' thing and we're too wrapped up in our anthropomorphic view points to recognize it.

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