Live data from Hacker News

Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

571–580 of 1001 posts

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive. My experience is that this is very true among a certain group of people, particularly literal-minded software enngineer types. But it is much less true in the general population where a single good analogy can accomplish more than pages of…

My experience is analogies are erroneously as supporting arguments to jump from premise to conclusion of an unrelated topic. I saw them a lot at my family's various religious/cult gatherings when I was a kid. The preacher would state something and then "prove" it with an analogy. Analogies don't accomplish anything in basically all of the uses I've seen. People want them to serve as proof, but it's a lazy way of gett…

I'd like to try to change your mind on analogies, and even without analogies (although I _will_ use an example)!

Analogies are an attempt to generalize an argument. Say we are trying to prove that "It will rain" is a valid conclusion from "If it is cloudy it will rain and it is cloudy". We can generalize this to "A -> B" & "B" -> "B", which you will recognize as an application of modus ponens from formal logic. Analogies try to use this power on fuzzier topics.

A normative principle like "We should build a new post office" are so abstract that they cannot be tackled head on (try defining "should" in the comments section and having no one point out a flaw to see why this is difficult). Because of this, we try to make comparison to other, seemingly similar, cases in an attempt to draw out the underlying logical structure. Because of this, I think they are a powerful and useful argumentative strategy.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#572
The root of this problem is that iPhones don't allow their owners to install software without jailbreaking their devices.

Any real solution must be pointed at fixing that problem, either convincing people to stop buying Apple devices or beating Apple in the trade war they started.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#573
from https://developer.apple.com/support/enrollment/

Do I need to enroll to install apps on a device? No. You can install apps on a device for free with Xcode. You’ll only need to enroll if you’d like to distribute apps, access beta software, and integrate with capabilities such as Siri, Apple Pay, and iCloud.

So, Epic, Spotify and Tinder can make their stores, they just need to automate the process.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#574

From https://appfairness.org/our-vision/ > No app store owner should prohibit third parties from offering competing app stores on the app store owner’s platform, or discourage developers or consumers from using them. I don't disagree but does this mean Sony should allow, for example, Steam to be installed on the PS5? Or is the definition of "App Store" used here narrow and arbitrary?

From https://appfairness.org/issues/30-app-tax/ > For most purchases made within its App Store, Apple takes 30% of the purchase price. No other transaction fee — in any industry — comes close. This is a straight-up lie and Epic, being in the gaming industry, knows it. Steam takes the same 30% (unless you're huge) and is Epic's direct competitor on PC. Not to mention every other gaming platform[1]. [1] https://www.ign…

Can a developer offer in-app purchases in a Steam downloaded game w/ direct payments using stripe or another payment processor?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? As a developer it sounds like a nightmare, but as a costumer, I like it. It makes for a great experience.

I just find it shortsighted; you're getting immediate convenience at the expense of longer term innovation and freedom. As I keep saying, if Microsoft had the power in 1990 that people want Apple to have today, the web wouldn't exist because Mosaic and Netscape would have been banned.

I’d prefer it if Microsoft, Google, Samsung, and other device makers released products that were on par with Apple’s. We are in this situation because Apple release better products than the competition. As a costumer, I want better products.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#576
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because app stores are acting as platforms as well as used to restrict third parties and improve first party products. Does Fortnite even have a platform for developing cosmetics and selling them? If not, then this argument misses the mark. Consoles do provide salient examples though.

Why isn't Epic forced to make it a platform? They have a large captive audience with money and I want a cut of it. Opening it up to everyone will drive competition to the digital skin market, and as we all know from this thread, that's a good thing. Why does Epic get to monopolize their game's monetization?

"monopolize their game's monetization"

That is a silly oxymoron. One game doesn't constitute a monopoly; users who don't like it for whatever reason can go play any one of the vast number of games that computing has produced for half a century.

What you're saying is like why should Burger King have a "monopoly" on what sauce goes into a Whopper? Gosh, darn it, the market should be open so that you can order a Whopper with MacDonald's Big Mac special sauce.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#578

from https://developer.apple.com/support/enrollment/ Do I need to enroll to install apps on a device? No. You can install apps on a device for free with Xcode. You’ll only need to enroll if you’d like to distribute apps, access beta software, and integrate with capabilities such as Siri, Apple Pay, and iCloud. So, Epic, Spotify and Tinder can make their stores, they just need to automate the process.

You are limited to three total apps installed for free with Xcode, they expire every seven days, have limited API surface access (you can't build a VPN app, for example), and among the things you can't integrate with is push notifications, which is one of the key reasons people build apps in the first place. So uhhh... thanks for playing, but that isn't helpful.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#579
post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do you want to bet that Epic and Spotify would pull their apps from the App Store or limit the features of their apps on the App Store in order to force people to their preferred platform? This isn't even hypothetical. Spotify already refuses to add features to the Apple Watch.

So "then you don't have to use them" right? To turn the Apple argument against your point? You can use a nicely curated app that's safe for you.

No, the argument of the poster you are replying to is that these companies are competing and rooting for one or another doesn’t benefit anybody, developers or costumers.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#580
post #572

The root of this problem is that iPhones don't allow their owners to install software without jailbreaking their devices. Any real solution must be pointed at fixing that problem, either convincing people to stop buying Apple devices or beating Apple in the trade war they started.

I bought iPhones for my parents precisely because they can't be tricked into installing software that hasn't been vetted by at least Apple and the software increasingly can't track them.

I paid a premium for that peace of mind.

Post reply on HN