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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#531

Post by Aldo_MX »

pb7 wrote: post #476
bluedevil2k wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The developers aren’t happy. No one forces a Fortnite player to buy skins or emotes, Apple forces developers to pay the fee.

No one is forcing them to develop for iOS. I will bet you dollars to donuts developers are very happy about the money they make from iOS otherwise they wouldn't be there.

> No one is forcing them to develop for iOS.

The market is.

You can not afford not to publish something on iOS, if iOS were a niche platform used only by 1% of users maybe, but it is a mainstream platform used by more than 40% of users in the US.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#532

Post by shadowgovt »

zepto wrote: post #153
shadowgovt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a vertical monopolist across a large-market-share hardware platform it manufactures and an exclusive system for putting software onto that platform. Epic has a store, but doesn't have a large-market-share hardware platform they control exclusively to go with it. Any machine I can install the Epic app store on, I can also install Steam on.

Apple’s market share isn’t large enough for this argument to work. If people are pushing for a change in framework where no hardware manufacturer is allowed to control what software is installed on their platform, I actually think that might be a good change across the board. The groups targeting Apple don’t care about any such freedom. They simply want more money for themselves without having to invest.

Not all vertical monopolies are trusts in need of breaking up. Apple's market share may not be enough for the monopoly to require anti-trust intervention, but definitionally, Apple has structured its hardware and software system on mobile as a vertical monopoly.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#534

Post by capableweb »

xlii wrote: post #479
capableweb wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic introduced the concept of exclusivity on the PC gaming scene Which event are you referring to exactly? I think the first time I encountered something related to exclusivity on PC gaming was the first time I bought CS:Source and had to download and sign up with Steam to be able to run it, even though I got it on a CD/DVD. This must have been around 2005 or so I think.

Uhm but you’re aware that CS:Source was developed by Valve company behind the Steam? The same goes true for Unreal Tournament. You want to play it you install Epic installer. That’s fine point. Rockstar and Ubisoft have their own launchers and it’s not an issue. Issue is that Epic holds the 3rd party games, snatching them from early access etc. effectively limit previously open access.

What games are you talking about specifically here and when? Fortnite was also developed by Unreal by the way.

Also, Epic is not the first company to buy a game + its license and then only allow people to play it via their platform. Counter-Strike was a independent mod back in the days, before Valve bought it. Same goes for Day of Defeat and bunch of others games.

I'm sure we can find even earlier examples of this happening. For all I know, this happens with every digital medium, pretty early on, and it's not news that game companies are greedy (both Valve, Epic and every other AAA studio/company)

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#535

Post by ratww »

stale2002 wrote: post #393
panragon wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this discussion nearly daily when talking with Android users. The iPhone is not a modular unit that can be tampered with at all, but despite even being a software developer, I do not actually care about my phone being modular. I want it to work and I want it to work well across the entire platform. Not only does iOS severely limit your options for changing your phone's UX, something a lot of people lament abou…

> Please don't give me root access to my iPhone, I do not care about it, I have no need for it, and I do not want it Then don't turn on root mode? Nobody will force you to do anything, if I am given the option of easilu turning on root mode, and you can simply choose to not turn that on.

> Nobody will force you to do anything

My previous bank forced installation of a rootkit in Windows and Mac, and required full permissions in Android just to open. Their website didn't even work in Linux because they didn't make a Rootkit.

I didn't really have an option at the time: this was before my government made a law allowing you to use any bank, so I needed the bank to access my salary.

I'm all for freedom of fully owning your own device, but the reality is that software developers and software companies will abuse this freedom.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#536

Post by Apocryphon »

zepto wrote: post #529
bogwog wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? Being able to sell on more than one store is a massive advantage. Besides the obvious lower risks and lower fees, you can also benefit from better exposure and discovery (two things that are terrible on the app store and google play) especially in niche stores.

Being forced to sell on multiple stores and comply with multiple sets of store rules just to access the same set of consumers is a massive disadvantage. There will be greater risks. It’s conceivable that fees will be a little lower, but this will only benefit larger developers who can absorb the increased costs of dealing with all the stores. It will be nothing but destructive for smaller developers.

This is scaremongering. Android has alternative app stores and most apps don't bother releasing to them. iOS would not fragment overnight into dozens of app stores if it was to become open. Likely the majority of apps would still target the App Store, with a handful of major competing stores. These competitors would be incentivized to attract developers, otherwise they would end up with the same lack of apps that killed alternative smartphone operating systems. Not to mention, there would be some degree of standardization of store rules across these platforms, because that's how industries with multiple players tend to function.

You're describing an entirely extreme position without any basis.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#537

Post by capableweb »

redsolver wrote: post #533

I think a solution to the App Store problem is to decentralize it, like the web. So I built a decentralized domain-based Android App Store: https://skydroid.app

If Apple wanted, they could release a decentralized app store relatively quickly, by just allowing Cydia to exists and be installed without having to require root access to the device (actually don't know if Cydia still exists, basically a app for listing/searching/installing/removing apps from any repository online)

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#538

Post by teawrecks »

danShumway wrote: post #11

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page ( https://appfairness.org/ )? I'm not certain the article is adding anything. ---- I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness sit…

There's no way to deny or even read their cookie policy without accepting it.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#539

Post by [deleted] »

gpm wrote: post #208

All the arguments about what company is most evil entirely miss the point. You don't make a decision on a specific issue based on what company you like more, you base it on who is right on the specific issue. From an ethical perspective that's what having a codified rule of laws is all about. Everyone get's the same rules no matter how much you like them. You don't arbitrarily punish people for doing things you don't…

[deleted]

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#540

Post by redsolver »

capableweb wrote: post #537
redsolver wrote: post #533

I think a solution to the App Store problem is to decentralize it, like the web. So I built a decentralized domain-based Android App Store: https://skydroid.app

If Apple wanted, they could release a decentralized app store relatively quickly, by just allowing Cydia to exists and be installed without having to require root access to the device (actually don't know if Cydia still exists, basically a app for listing/searching/installing/removing apps from any repository online)

Yep, that's basically what SkyDroid does, but it tries to be more user-friendly.
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