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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#511

Post by manigandham »

spideymans wrote: post #357
manigandham wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an alternative to the App Store doesn't mean you have to stop using the App Store, or suffer any reduction in quality in the apps available on the App Store. Nothing changes for you in exchange for more freedom for others.

Yeah until Facebook moves all their apps to their own App Store so they don’t have to deal with all of Apple’s pesky privacy rules.

What privacy rules would those be? Why would iOS privacy settings be affected by the install method? What would be different from the Facebook SDK that's already installed in millions of apps on the App Store today?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#512

Post by gpm »

jariel wrote: post #502
gpm wrote: post #208

All the arguments about what company is most evil entirely miss the point. You don't make a decision on a specific issue based on what company you like more, you base it on who is right on the specific issue. From an ethical perspective that's what having a codified rule of laws is all about. Everyone get's the same rules no matter how much you like them. You don't arbitrarily punish people for doing things you don't…

The issue is 'anti competitiveness' not 'evil' and most arguments are pointed at that.

Things have improved since I posted this.

At the time I posted this the top comment and many other highly voted comments were just criticizing epic, spotify, and tinder. E.g. complaining that epic sells to kids, spotify doesn't pay artists enough, and that tinder sells sex and commits age discrimination.

Regardless of whether or not they are valid complaints, they aren't at all related to anti trust (or if they are, no one was bothering to make the connection).

This use to be the top comment, for reference: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579860

This was the comment that was the tipping point for me making the post, and was at the time ranked fairly highly (hence all the replies to it): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579479

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#513

Post by Aldo_MX »

asou wrote: post #454
damnyou wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, what the fuck? It's not "on me". It's on Apple to make it easy to cancel even if I no longer have an Apple product or Windows PC on hand. Borrow a friend's PC? Spin up an AWS Windows instance? Seriously, WTF?! I can cancel my Android subscriptions from anywhere with a web browser.

It's not an intentional trick to force you to keep paying. The vast vast majority of people have access to a Windows PC or Apple product. How you ended up in this edge case I'll never know. To take this to it's logical conclusion, what if you don't run JavaScript on your browsers. Would they also need to give you a cancelation page which doesn't require JavaScript.

How about this? An email reminder N days in advance of the charge date with a cancel link.

Companies get regulated for a reason, and facilitating the cancelation of subscriptions sounds reasonable to me.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#514

Post by Apocryphon »

plandis wrote: post #424
echelon wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple doesn’t even have 50% of the smartphone market. It looks like they command between 33% and 46% of sales in the US per quarter. [1] That's a lot of people. Many of them use their iPhone as their only computer. > It sounds like you’re an App developer so perhaps it would be more honest to just explicitly state that you want to make more money I want freedom back. I have projects that make zero money that I want…

> Dealing with Apple is like living under an authoritarian regime. We don't have any choice but to deal with them because of the power they wield. I’m not sure I’m following. You are being forced to develop for Apple devices against your will?

Given that the majority of paying customers are on iOS, it's certainly a strong incentive for app developers to target that platform.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#515

Post by orangecat »

DevKoala wrote: post #184
eertami wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but it's of course surprising such people would be present on HN.

Why? As a developer it sounds like a nightmare, but as a costumer, I like it. It makes for a great experience.

I just find it shortsighted; you're getting immediate convenience at the expense of longer term innovation and freedom. As I keep saying, if Microsoft had the power in 1990 that people want Apple to have today, the web wouldn't exist because Mosaic and Netscape would have been banned.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#516

Post by ryandrake »

AlexandrB wrote: post #86

From https://appfairness.org/our-vision/ > No app store owner should prohibit third parties from offering competing app stores on the app store owner’s platform, or discourage developers or consumers from using them. I don't disagree but does this mean Sony should allow, for example, Steam to be installed on the PS5? Or is the definition of "App Store" used here narrow and arbitrary?

As a user, I don't want more app stores all over my phone. I don't want more app stores all over my game console or PC either. Compare it to the Windows gaming world, where if you want game 1, you need to go to store A, if you want game 2, you need to install store B, if you want game 3, you need to install store C. Yuck! What end user wants that hassle?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#517

Post by izolate »

joenathanone wrote: post #469
seahawks78 wrote: post #458

Correct me if I am wrong but the advocacy group is essentially arguing that let me use your platform (marketplace) services and get a free ride doing so. Kind of like taking an Uber where at the end of the ride the driver just says: "you know what, lets ditch Uber, pull out your credit card and settle between the two of us. And I will charge you much lower!!" Aha.

The analogy only works if the only way to get to your destination was to use Uber. iOS doesn't allow app installs outside of the store.

But it's not the only way to get to work. You can use Lyft (Android).

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#518

Post by cblconfederate »

karpierz wrote: post #19

If I build an operating system + hardware, should I be legally mandated to provide tooling to make it easy for users to find and install arbitrary software?

if you want your IP protections, yes. Companies don't exist in vacuum, they are subject to laws of the land, some of them advocated by people called programmers. If it's fine for companies to demand IP protection, it's fine for developers to demand fair access to that market.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#519

Post by zamalek »

dpratt wrote: post #103
danShumway wrote: post #11

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page ( https://appfairness.org/ )? I'm not certain the article is adding anything. ---- I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness sit…

This is a flawed analogy. The correct one would be Cheerios printing "If you buy me at Costco, I cost $1 less" on the outside of the box. No rational retailer that isn't Costco would carry that product.

Yes, but remember that retailers can (and often do) promise to match the best price that you can find at their competitors. This is because retailers are in competition with each other for the same products.

This analogy does not apply to Apple, because it has no motivation to price match, because nobody is allowed to sell i-device apps except for Apple.

Edit: in addition, if we follow your analogy further, Costco could demand 30% from Apple on all purchases made through the App Store, for iPhones sold in Costco. Just like Apple demands a cut of all purchases after they sell a product in their store.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#520

Post by [deleted] »

kstrauser wrote: post #231
electriclove wrote: post #3

Apple built their controlled ecosystem and set their rules. And now others are insisting that Apple should not have that control (even when they themselves are doing the same thing).

And furthermore, the Apple ecosystem is so popular because Apple curates the app store. I recommend their stuff to my non-techie relatives because I trust that they're not going to stumble their way into installing malware from some weird knockoff from Elbonia. With an iPhone, for better or for worse, I can point them at the App Store... app... ("say 'app' again! I dare you!") and be reasonably confident they're gett…

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