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Mark in the Middle

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Re: Mark in the Middle

#231

Post by shadowgovt »

nemothekid wrote: post #159
roenxi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although a follow up would be the comforting level of maturity in Facebook's leadership, acknowledging that it isn't their role to bring politics into the workplace. It is distressingly refreshing to see a company in the news for taking a stance like "In my work with Joel, I’ve found him to be ... very rigorous and principled in his thinking [and therefore I'm happy to work with him despite being a Republican]". It r…

> acknowledging that it isn't their role to bring politics into the workplace. This is very hard for me to square with Facebook. It's like working at the NY Times and saying "no politics in the work place." Almost any decision FB makes is by definition political. The top 10 most interacted pages on Facebook are political. COVID-19, in the US, is political. It doesn't strike me as mature, it's deceitful. It's very eas…

The notion that a medium can be above politics is, itself, a political opinion.

The antithesis is "The medium is the message."

Re: Mark in the Middle

#232

Post by okprod »

grawprog wrote: post #203

So, facebook employees are mad they're not allowed to censor things they disagree with that people post on facebook? I don't understand how facebook came to be responsible for policing political opinions anyway. In fact, I don't understand why employees at tech companies believe they have the right to police people's opinions period. I see it amongst commenters here too. What gives any of these people the right to po…

Facebook can do whatever it wants, including policing communications on its platform; it's a for-profit company.

Re: Mark in the Middle

#233

Post by hnatitagain »

saeranv wrote: post #222
grawprog wrote: post #203

So, facebook employees are mad they're not allowed to censor things they disagree with that people post on facebook? I don't understand how facebook came to be responsible for policing political opinions anyway. In fact, I don't understand why employees at tech companies believe they have the right to police people's opinions period. I see it amongst commenters here too. What gives any of these people the right to po…

This is a strawman argument. No one cares about other people having and sharing different opinions. However the argument for moderating content on Facebook is centered around misinformation, and incitement of violence. There has now been multiple instances where right-wing populists have posted fake information on Facebook with political consequences. In Myanmar this incited in genocide[1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.co…

This is a disingenuous argument that neglects to include the fact that 'misinformation' and 'violence' are stretched beyond the pale by ideologues in order to justify why something they disagree with politically should be removed on these platforms.

Re: Mark in the Middle

#234

Post by _qulr »

scottlamb wrote: post #179
_qulr wrote: post #87

Politics aside, many Facebook employees come across as rather childish, incapable of taking care of themselves. The big complaint is about lack of snacks! Zuck has to scold them by asking rhetorically whether they joined the company for the free food. And one employee asks if they can go live on an island by themselves, apparently like Lord of the Flies. Of course one may fairly ask whether Facebook's hiring process…

> The big complaint is about lack of snacks! Free food , including meals. If Facebook is anything like Google, some single people were literally using that for every meal and snack 5/7 days per week. It's tasty, nutritious food, and you don't have to prepare it or do dishes. Sure, an adult should be able to take care of this on their own, but this is a major perk, not just a box of granola bars on a shelf. It might c…

From what I've seen, I don't think $5K per year is a big chunk of a Facebook engineer's compensation. In any case, the bigger issue is that this situation exposes how utterly dependent these engineers are on their employer, not just for money but for basic life functionality. Only a tiny number of companies in the world offer this level of "service" to employees. What happens if and when they no longer work at Facebook? The company has seemingly turned its employees into helpless children, or at least never forced them to grow up after leaving college. If "continue to live like you're in the dorm" is a "perk", maybe it shouldn't be.

Re: Mark in the Middle

#235

Post by shadowgovt »

glitchc wrote: post #198
notacoward wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook is a company that uses its power to change what people think I don't think that's a helpful way to look at it. Facebook is a platform that other people use to change what people think, and that's dangerous enough. Without any ill intent whatsoever from Facebook itself, that still creates serious issues with unintentional bias (e.g. via algorithms trained with poor data sets) and manipulation. Those are the…

While other people post content, what content is nudged higher up your feed aor further down the list is definitely in Facebook’s control. They are driving public opinion based on what is promoted or demoted. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Zuck personally decides which posts are promoted, esp. when they come from important people. It’s too much power to just give up to others, and Facebook has never had noble intenti…

This cannot be under-emphasized.

Facebook isn't a neutral medium. There's an algorithm that determines priority for data hitting every user's feed.

Re: Mark in the Middle

#236

Post by zimpenfish »

luckylion wrote: post #167
zimpenfish wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are all those people morally bankrupt and unworthy of a place in the hallowed gardens of equality? I would say that places in the "hallowed gardens of equality" are for those who believe in equality, not those who consider any set of other people as lesser. > and in doing so force the other group to take a side. No-one forces anyone to be racist, homophobic, etc. > have had their own life circumstances shape their…

> No-one forces anyone to be racist, homophobic, etc. Do you believe that you hold your beliefs because of some great achievement, and not "just because"? Do you believe that you are as smart as you are because of $somethingYouDid and not because of genetic and environmental lotteries?

> Do you believe that you hold your beliefs because of some great achievement, and not "just because"?

I believe that I hold my current beliefs because I have considered my old beliefs and tried to work on improving them. As someone who grew up in 70s UK, I grew up seeing casual racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. on TV every day and, yeah, that definitely helped shape, if not specific opinions about the worth of people, then certainly a casual carelessness - it would be a rare week at school without a new racist joke, for example.

Thankfully I've seen since that I was wrong and have tried to be better (but I fully admit I have a long way to go.)

Re: Mark in the Middle

#238

Post by shadowgovt »

loxs wrote: post #35
C1sc0cat wrote: post #21

He is Fucked if Biden wins - and I suspect the dual stock structure used to maintain control might get looked at by the SEC. The Board need to tell him " Go, get you out! Make haste! Ye venal slaves be gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!"

As an outsider (from a different continent), it doesn't seem at all likely that there is a chance for Biden winning. It probably looks the same from where Zuck is sitting. We might, of course, both be wrong :)

Polls currently favor him to win.

Re: Mark in the Middle

#239

Post by _vertigo »

scottlamb wrote: post #179
_qulr wrote: post #87

Politics aside, many Facebook employees come across as rather childish, incapable of taking care of themselves. The big complaint is about lack of snacks! Zuck has to scold them by asking rhetorically whether they joined the company for the free food. And one employee asks if they can go live on an island by themselves, apparently like Lord of the Flies. Of course one may fairly ask whether Facebook's hiring process…

> The big complaint is about lack of snacks! Free food , including meals. If Facebook is anything like Google, some single people were literally using that for every meal and snack 5/7 days per week. It's tasty, nutritious food, and you don't have to prepare it or do dishes. Sure, an adult should be able to take care of this on their own, but this is a major perk, not just a box of granola bars on a shelf. It might c…

Never mind the fact that Facebook probably pays better than 80% of tech companies

Never mind the fact that tech salaries are already insane

Never mind the fact that there is a global pandemic and corresponding economic uncertainty

Never mind the fact that millions of people are out of work, can't afford to feed their families, and facing one of the biggest eviction crises of all time while being completely abandoned by the government

Never mind all that - where is my free food?

Re: Mark in the Middle

#240

Post by asdasfasdfasdf »

grawprog wrote: post #203

So, facebook employees are mad they're not allowed to censor things they disagree with that people post on facebook? I don't understand how facebook came to be responsible for policing political opinions anyway. In fact, I don't understand why employees at tech companies believe they have the right to police people's opinions period. I see it amongst commenters here too. What gives any of these people the right to po…

If it's in your house (server) you can do what you want with it (granted there are no laws preventing it). It's an independent for-profit company. You can kick someone out of a physical store for what they do or say all the same.
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