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The Cement of Society Is...

branemrys.blogspot.com

11–20 of 167 posts

Re: The Cement of Society Is...

#11
'Conscientiousness'[1] (there's some science to this one)

Basically shared values, behaviours, rough sense of justice, morality and humanity, and a sense that individuals ought to aspire to those on some level.

It's funny because in the West we talk a lot about 'freedom' and 'classical liberalism' - I really think that's partly:

a) A response to historically authoritarian systems either political or cultural which were possibly 'too much'

b) An appeal to the ego: none of us really want to 'follow rules', I mean, we all just want to 'do whatever' - it takes 'second order thinking' to act 'morally' and 'responsibly' in whatever context those are defined ... and we're always going to define them a little bit differently.

I think we all understand this on some level, even if our ideologies are wrapped up in something else.

We tend to build ideals around nitpicking, and when a certain 'orthodox morality' clashes with some other form of 'expression' (say, no common acceptance of trans people), then we get into an existential fight with said 'orthodoxy', The 'sides' become polarized, revolutionary, we look at everything through that narrow lense and end up missing all of the other 'very important things' many of us take for granted ... when probably what needs to happen is just some tweaking.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientiousness

Re: The Cement of Society Is...

#12
post #3

More and more I think a good answer for this is something along the lines of "...a shared basic reality of facts." Especially lately in the US it seems like there's a schism in the basic understanding of what's happening with stuff like Coronavirus, effects of systematic racism past and present, climate change, etc.

I don't want to sound like a nitpicker, but "basic understanding" and "facts" are two very different things: facts are facts. Their understanding has more to do with the interpretation.

And if we all agree on interpretation of the facts, then cementing the society becomes too easy of a task.

Re: The Cement of Society Is...

#13
post #5
post #3

More and more I think a good answer for this is something along the lines of "...a shared basic reality of facts." Especially lately in the US it seems like there's a schism in the basic understanding of what's happening with stuff like Coronavirus, effects of systematic racism past and present, climate change, etc.

Or at least, an agreement in the value of good faith discussion in pursuit of truth and mutual progress.

Alas, claiming that your opponent discusses things in bad faith is often the simplest way to get the upper hand.

Re: The Cement of Society Is...

#14
Religion is an interesting one. It's certainly a cement.

It's easy to see the negatives really hard to see the positives but they will be huge, it's so ingrained it will have shaped everything. We will perhaps never know if it was a net gain or not.

Re: The Cement of Society Is...

#15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or at least, an agreement in the value of good faith discussion in pursuit of truth and mutual progress.

Alas, claiming that your opponent discusses things in bad faith is often the simplest way to get the upper hand.

It's easier to believe when from your understanding of the world the other side is blatantly lying and misrepresenting things. It forms a bit of a positive feedback loop where seeing bad intentions leads you to being less likely to give slack so you see more bad intentions.

From the left looking rightward at Fox News and many local stations (increasingly owned by and forced to run identical scripts from Sinclair Broadcasting) [0] at the response and the response to the response to coronavirus for example it's hard to ascribe that to just a different interpretation of facts.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxtkvG1JnPk

Re: The Cement of Society Is...

#16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, claiming that your opponent discusses things in bad faith is often the simplest way to get the upper hand.

It's easier to believe when from your understanding of the world the other side is blatantly lying and misrepresenting things. It forms a bit of a positive feedback loop where seeing bad intentions leads you to being less likely to give slack so you see more bad intentions. From the left looking rightward at Fox News and many local stations (increasingly owned by and forced to run identical scripts from Sinclair Broa…

You do realize that the "other side" has the same EXACT perception of you, right?

It would be nice if people were a bit more skeptical of their preferred news outlets and opinion makers. What I see instead is the continuing existence of the same bubble that led to the shock and surprise at Trump's election. An absolute refusal or inability to consider other views, an inability to interpret events in historical context and with a healthy dose of common sense.

Re: The Cement of Society Is...

#17
post #3

More and more I think a good answer for this is something along the lines of "...a shared basic reality of facts." Especially lately in the US it seems like there's a schism in the basic understanding of what's happening with stuff like Coronavirus, effects of systematic racism past and present, climate change, etc.

Basic understanding? How about an extremely high and unwarranted confidence in one's own understanding of what constitutes a fact. I see no signs of having ever even considered whether the categories underlying one's thought are even valid. All I see is the mindless repetition of slogans and a superficiality of understanding. Concepts are merely accepted because the comedian or talking head or my environment want me to accept them. In other words, little interest in the truth and little common sense in interpreting events and claims.

Re: The Cement of Society Is...

#18
Alcohol. Banks. Chromosome identity politics. Divorce. Email. Foreigners-as-the-excuse. Generational warfare. Heels. I. Jokes approved as PC. Kafka. LVMH. Minimalism in lieu of poverty. No homes for Millenials. Objects. Puritanism. Quiet carriages. Restlessness. Streaming. Terror. University debt. Vegans. Woks. Xenogamy. Yellow peril. Zoom.

Re: The Cement of Society Is...

#20
post #3

More and more I think a good answer for this is something along the lines of "...a shared basic reality of facts." Especially lately in the US it seems like there's a schism in the basic understanding of what's happening with stuff like Coronavirus, effects of systematic racism past and present, climate change, etc.

I don't want to sound like a nitpicker, but "basic understanding" and "facts" are two very different things: facts are facts. Their understanding has more to do with the interpretation. And if we all agree on interpretation of the facts, then cementing the society becomes too easy of a task.

It’s especially egregious in this case with 1/3 of examples being extremely politically oriented (the so-called systemic racism). One of the big issue is when people start thinking their fantasies are reality and will distort every fact to fit in, instead of critically think that they may, in fact, be wrong.
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