They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#521

Post by s1artibartfast » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:36 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #407

simias wrote: post #378

It sucks that Google doesn't offer better support, but are they really to blame here? Isn't the root of the issue IP and copyright laws and this very nebulous notion of "fair use" that seems extremely easy for IP owners to dispute and win? I see people in this comment section posting alternatives to Youtube but I really wonder if, should they become equally as successful, they could end up behaving any different. Whe…

Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious Google is completely to blame here. Rather than say "Your channel will be deleted for unexplained copyright infringement" they could say "Videos X, Y, and Z contain copyrighted material at timestamps X', Y', and Z'. This material has been claimed, you may dispute it, because this is your first infringement we will allow you to correct the issue, etc." As the video points out, in orde…

The whole thing is play for media uproar. Gareth Evans has channel based on playing & covering songs. Courts have always held that this is textbook copyright infringement.

Gareth Evans videos all have the songs and artist name in the title.

Whoever filed the takedown was lazy in that they didn't include the description because the entire video is infringing.

Edit for sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_version#U.S._copyright_l...

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-yo...

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/question-when-mechan...

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#522

Post by creato » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:39 AM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #492

kelnos wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then this is a case of a tenant agreeing to onerous terms before setting up shop in a retail space, terms which allow the landlord to kick the tenant out at their whim, with no legal recourse. I can't believe this needs to be said literally every time one of these types of articles gets posted on HN: if you build your business on top of someone else's platform, and have no contracts in place to protect your interests…

> Then this is a case of a tenant agreeing to onerous terms before setting up shop in a retail space One small caveat - the small business owner had no choice in the matter when they moved in 10 years ago. There was only one mall people would actually visit across the entire world. And that mall has a clickwrap agreement for all their rentals, one which includes a clause that says "and we can change this agreement at…

10 years ago it was probably less like a "small business" and more like a lemonade stand, so neither youtube nor the creator really cared about having a strong agreement or understanding in place.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#523

Post by megous » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:39 AM UTC

mattl wrote: post #509

Bedon292 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of when s3 went down in 2017, and took a chunk of the internet with it (to include their own status dashboard) due to someone entering a command wrong. https://aws.amazon.com/message/41926/

Other than websites and maybe some web-ish apps not too much else would be affected by S3 outage, a DNS outage would affect more of the Internet vs the web.

All of Google was gone from my country due to bungled router configuration for half a day some time ago. Now that was fun to watch. Everything from 8.8.8.8 to all their backend APIs for android, to all their web properties, went poof.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#524

Post by s1artibartfast » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:43 AM UTC

retsibsi wrote: post #156

birdmanjeremy wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be both a small business and "non-commercial in nature"? Because that's at the crux of his fair use claim I think.

That's the bit that doesn't ring true to me, his "non-commercial" claim. I'm not at all suggesting that he deserves the treatment he's getting, but it doesn't seem like he's being entirely straightforward here. Can anyone who knows the law weigh in on whether I'm missing something about the distinction between 'commercial' and 'monetized via advertising'?

Fair use does not apply to cover songs, independent of profit.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#525

Post by mattl » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:44 AM UTC

megous wrote: post #523

mattl wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than websites and maybe some web-ish apps not too much else would be affected by S3 outage, a DNS outage would affect more of the Internet vs the web.

All of Google was gone from my country due to bungled router configuration for half a day some time ago. Now that was fun to watch. Everything from 8.8.8.8 to all their backend APIs for android, to all their web properties, went poof.

Yikes. Time to use a few different providers?

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#526

Post by gputhrowaway630 » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:46 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #451

wishinghand wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have live streaming available now, which is more of a Twitch thing than even a Youtube thing, though YT does offer it.

Live streaming is more in line with the twitch brand, but youtube's implementation is significantly better , at least on the client side. There's no live rewinding on twitch, or pausing for a minute and then catching back up at 1.25x or 1.5x

It's true that you can't pause a stream on Twitch, but Twitch allows you to save clips that are functionally equivalent to rewinding, which isn't available on YouTube. Twitch's UX&I is also much better suited to streaming than YouTube (bigger chat, multiple viewing sizes/configurations, no video suggestions).

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#527

Post by CreepGin » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:46 AM UTC

mattl wrote: post #509

Bedon292 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of when s3 went down in 2017, and took a chunk of the internet with it (to include their own status dashboard) due to someone entering a command wrong. https://aws.amazon.com/message/41926/

Other than websites and maybe some web-ish apps not too much else would be affected by S3 outage, a DNS outage would affect more of the Internet vs the web.

Websites and web-ish apps are not a chunk of the internet? Also there are tons of non-web-ish apps that depend on S3.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#528

Post by pwg » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:53 AM UTC

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #504

lmm wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An inconsistently applied sanity check creates a false sense of security. Like how a safety barrier that isn't strong enough to take someone's weight might be worse than no barrier.

Yeah, some people recommend something like alias rm=‘rm -i’ Unfortunately, as soon as you’re on another computer or at someone else’s shell, you’ll be more comfortable thinking less about rm-ing things and the sanity check won’t be there.

The better recommendation is to alias rm -i to del:

    alias del='rm -i'

And then get in the habit of using 'del' unless you really want a no-confirmation delete.

Then when you are on another computer or at someone else's shell you get:

    del: command not found

Instead of having a bunch of files silently deleted.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#529

Post by dperfect » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:56 AM UTC

I'm not a lawyer, and I definitely think the whole copyright system needs reform, but I believe there could be legitimate issues with the legality of publicly posting guitar covers as this person is doing on their channel.

I'm not very familiar with the channel, but from the little I've seen, I believe the educational nature (and thereby fair use defense) could be debatable. Even if some of his videos are clearly educational, it seems that some videos are just covers of popular songs. And even if he's not using published sheet music to play the songs, he may still be required to have mechanical licenses, and possibly also sync licenses.

Most published music has three licenses that could be relevant here: the mechanical license (covering the combination of notes, rhythms, and/or lyrics that make the song distinct and "recognizable"), the sync license (using the song along with images/video), and a master license (covering a specific recording of the song). From my limited experience (and confirmed here [1]), it appears that many of these videos probably require at least a mechanical license to be performed publicly on the channel.

That being said, I absolutely agree with the sentiment that YouTube's handling of these issues is extremely problematic. They really need to start treating content creators with more respect and assume innocence until proven otherwise. There also needs to be more transparency into the process (and claims) so creators aren't left in the dark, along with improved ways to respond to erroneous claims.

[1] https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-yo...

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#530

Post by motoboi » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:57 AM UTC

mikenew wrote: post #515

zaroth wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck checking in code that will increase the human burden and reduce automation. Imagine how many TPS reports you would have to fill out to get permission to make a system page a human more often at “Google scale”. When the metrics finally hit the dashboards sounds like it would be career limiting. “But we prevented pdkl95’s channel from being deleted!” is definitely going to be a solid defense for why you hobbl…

And yet they've created a widespread perception that YouTube mistreats it's creators, and we see stories like this all the time now. Surely someone at Google is capable of taking the long view. And if the culture at Google prevents that then Google is broken.

Every time a person come close the have a long time view, they get senior enough to leave the company or the product team. All companies have a tendency to lost bearing of its mission and focus on the wellbeing of the company owners or executives.