They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#511

Post by fapjacks » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:22 AM UTC

dessant wrote: post #401

titzer wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly because: A.) They don't know why, algorithms did it. B.) They can't be bothered looking into it, because you aren't spending enough money. C.) Their systems have now classified you as a scammer and you are now irredemable. D.) They don't want to leak any details that help scammers learn how to get around automated anti-fraud/abuse systems. edit to add: E.) The reason might be something utterly embarrassin…

> C.) Their systems have now classified you as a scammer and you are now irredemable. The mistakes Google's automated systems and reviewers make can cause lasting damage, even if your app or channel is reinstated after public outcry. One of my browser extensions was removed for absurd reasons from the Chrome Web Store, and they've reversed their decision after things were made public [1][2]. While the extension was r…

The way people get around this apparent "shadowban" behavior is by creating a separate legal entity of some form to be the publisher of each app or extension or channel or whatever. It seems that once you are shadowbanned, you are shadowbanned forever. This of course increases the cost of publishing your project, but this is a monopoly we're dealing with and so we have no recourse.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#512

Post by Sophistifunk » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #344

> I run a YouTube channel that is over 10 years old , has over 770,000 subscribers , almost 600 public videos , 120,000,000 views When writing software involved in managing a live, public, massively multi-user system, the traditional unix-style commands that are immediate, often silent, and capable of damaging effects become a really easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. Worse, some commands might let you accidenta…

Youtube runs the way it runs because they don't care if a bunch of creators get hosed. All they care about is keeping the copyright wolves at bay.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#513

Post by whatever1 » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:26 AM UTC

mundo wrote: post #337

whatever1 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search for the word “Jews” in your site.

Do you want a video platform that deletes stuff? Or one that doesn't? Choice A leads to the problem this thread is discussing. Choice B leads to the problem you're describing. Personally I would prefer a choice C, a platform that deletes stuff I don't like and nothing else, but I don't think that's on offer. The closest thing available is platforms that delete stuff that offends their target demographic, as determine…

Is it too much to ask for a platform in 2020 to not serve nazi propaganda? Specially after we spent a lot of blood to get rid of it in the first place when we left it unchecked.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#514

Post by s1artibartfast » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #497

simias wrote: post #378

It sucks that Google doesn't offer better support, but are they really to blame here? Isn't the root of the issue IP and copyright laws and this very nebulous notion of "fair use" that seems extremely easy for IP owners to dispute and win? I see people in this comment section posting alternatives to Youtube but I really wonder if, should they become equally as successful, they could end up behaving any different. Whe…

> When you get thousands of videos uploaded at any given moment and probably a huge amount of DMCA takedown requests what choice do you reasonably have? Legally following the DMCA process. The DMCA process allows a response and does not demand channel deletion. Also the DMCA complaints are supposed to be forwarded. > That guy makes song covers. He claims it's non-profit, he claims it's fair use. The IP owner disagree…

>That he makes money from the cover isn't infringement, anymore than other covers are infringement when they were sold on physical CDs.

The law is clear that both are valid infringement and subject to DMCA takedown, unless the songs have been licensed.

Not saying a like it, but there is a long list of cases upholding it.

Edit for sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_version#U.S._copyright_l...

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-yo...

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/question-when-mechan...

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#515

Post by mikenew » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #506

pdkl95 wrote: post #344

> I run a YouTube channel that is over 10 years old , has over 770,000 subscribers , almost 600 public videos , 120,000,000 views When writing software involved in managing a live, public, massively multi-user system, the traditional unix-style commands that are immediate, often silent, and capable of damaging effects become a really easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. Worse, some commands might let you accidenta…

Good luck checking in code that will increase the human burden and reduce automation. Imagine how many TPS reports you would have to fill out to get permission to make a system page a human more often at “Google scale”. When the metrics finally hit the dashboards sounds like it would be career limiting. “But we prevented pdkl95’s channel from being deleted!” is definitely going to be a solid defense for why you hobbl…

And yet they've created a widespread perception that YouTube mistreats it's creators, and we see stories like this all the time now. Surely someone at Google is capable of taking the long view. And if the culture at Google prevents that then Google is broken.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#516

Post by pdkl95 » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:31 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #476

pdkl95 wrote: post #344

> I run a YouTube channel that is over 10 years old , has over 770,000 subscribers , almost 600 public videos , 120,000,000 views When writing software involved in managing a live, public, massively multi-user system, the traditional unix-style commands that are immediate, often silent, and capable of damaging effects become a really easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. Worse, some commands might let you accidenta…

Two days ago I restored a customer's data from backup because they typed "ALL" and hit OK on a dialog that said "This will change ALL of your things, type ALL to confirm". This dialog only pops up if N > 100, and normally makes you type the number (ALL is a special case). I just do not know how to make this more idiotproof short of making them fax in the request. No matter what you think is sane, some insane person w…

Unfortunately human error can never be completely eliminated. However, I'm not really talking about this type of problem. In my previous [1], the operator understood how the tool worked; they simply made a mistake when typing the command, and the tool without warning accepted the command to reboot the entire datacenter. Particularly telling are these comments: (sic)

    Operator-1: I ewas rebooting an rb
    Operator-1: forgot to put -n
    [...]
    Operator-5: [...] i've almost done what Operatolr-1
                just did a *number* of times.

That isn't a user understanding problem; it's a dangerous tool that doesn't fail safely. In your case, at least you detected the unusually destructive action and asked for verification. Youtube isn't even attempting simple sanity checks like your "N > 100" test.

> normally makes you type the number

> I just do not know how to make this more idiotproof

Requiring explicit typing of the number or an explicit phrase like "Yes, I want to delete everything." are can help a lot.

If possible, another good approach is to explicitly show the full list of proposed changes. Phrases like "This will change ALL of ..." might have multiple interpretations (ALL what? All of the the things in my entire account? All of the things in the current/last project/group? All of the things I think (perhaps incorrectly) were referenced in this action?). If someone is expecting to change only a few records, a confirmation popup that asks "Do you want to make these changes:" followed by a huge list has a large size/presence that should conflict with their expectations. "I only wanted to change a few things - wtf is this huge list?"

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#517

Post by stickfigure » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:31 AM UTC

laughinghan wrote: post #486

stickfigure wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two days ago I restored a customer's data from backup because they typed "ALL" and hit OK on a dialog that said "This will change ALL of your things, type ALL to confirm". This dialog only pops up if N > 100, and normally makes you type the number (ALL is a special case). I just do not know how to make this more idiotproof short of making them fax in the request. No matter what you think is sane, some insane person w…

It sounds like you found the solution, you just made it really cumbersome: undo. All confirmation dialogs should be replaced with undo. The happy path has lower friction, and in case of a mistake they'll heave a huge sigh of relief. When possible, it's better in all cases for all users, whether novices or power users. And many things that at first blush seem like undo isn't possible, are actually easy to make undoabl…

Implementing soft-delete is much easier than "soft-update", which is what this would have been.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#518

Post by arihant » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:32 AM UTC

So I ventured into indie music production during lockdown and here's the thing -- covers are a notoriously vague area when it comes to copyright and licensing. It is easy and cheap ($10-15) to get a cover license. You are required to give out royalties. Most covers published on YouTube just end up losing monetization.

But, and here is where it gets weird, what defines cover is extremely limiting. For covers, the song must follow the exact general tone and pattern of the original. Anything else is considered derivative work and an infringement, even if the license was bought. So if a guitarist adds a simple vocal explaining how he played it -- it is not a cover. It's infringement.

Also, under DMCA, covers are not fair use. I also expect lesser music companies letting YouTube videos slide as we now have YT Music and these covers directly compete with the original. So they might just not be comfortable with getting your money, they also don't want a cover beating the original in playlists and charts.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#519

Post by Crosseye_Jack » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:34 AM UTC

Sophistifunk wrote: post #512

pdkl95 wrote: post #344

> I run a YouTube channel that is over 10 years old , has over 770,000 subscribers , almost 600 public videos , 120,000,000 views When writing software involved in managing a live, public, massively multi-user system, the traditional unix-style commands that are immediate, often silent, and capable of damaging effects become a really easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. Worse, some commands might let you accidenta…

Youtube runs the way it runs because they don't care if a bunch of creators get hosed. All they care about is keeping the copyright wolves at bay.

Under DCMA, on receiving a valid counter notification they are free to put the content back on the site, remove the strike from the content uploader and let the courts handle the matter between the two parties.

https://twitter.com/leonardjfrench/status/130794817037951385...

It’s only if Google “ignore” valid dmca takedown notifications they are at risk of losing their safe harbour exceptions. How they handle the counter notifications can be pretty hit and miss. (but tbf, most of the time it’s because the person filing the counter notification didn’t fill it out exactly how Google’s bots like) I’ve seen cases where YT just automatically removed the strike from the account and restored the video on receipt of the counter notice. I’ve seen cases where they have locked the account even though the person filing the DMCA notifications has publicly admitted to taking down the video because it was critical of the work and the video only contained small pieces of the original content (exactly what you would expect to be covered under the criticism and comment portions of fair use exception).

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#520

Post by fapjacks » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:34 AM UTC

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #480

tacLog wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mailinabox How bad is life without that filter?

Its not really then end of the world. It just means I need to unsubscribe from newsletters manually rather than letting google dump them in the trash automatically. I would like to see server side email filtering though since my thunderbird filters are useless when my desktop is off and I check with my phone. I think I largely have a herd immunity from spam since no one sends spam that will automatically be filtered…

Yeah this is an interesting side effect: I just use the recommended defaults in spamassassin with my self-hosted mail server and it does a much better job than gmail of properly sorting mail between inbox and spam folders.