They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#491

Post by gforz » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

ehsankia wrote: post #256

nemothekid wrote: post #61

I've seen this on Twitter, Reddit and now HN, so I assume there will be enough buzz for Google to do something. I expect his channel to be undeleted, then a Twitter apology, then to repeat this all over again with another channel with sufficient clout in 5-6 months. It's a complete shitshow.

Here's the other way to look at it, videos like this are becoming fairly rare comparatively, maybe 2-3 a year. They definitely used to be more common before. Considering the millions or creators you have, and even with the fact that only a small number of them would make a video like this and blow up, it still is surprising that it's happening so infrequently. The thing is, for all we know, 99.99% of cases could be h…

Is there a source you could point me on how this is happening infrequently over the years ? I am curious to see the progression.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#492

Post by falcolas » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:00 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #328

dalbasal wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landlords and tenants have contracts, and there are rules about what and how these are enforceable.

Then this is a case of a tenant agreeing to onerous terms before setting up shop in a retail space, terms which allow the landlord to kick the tenant out at their whim, with no legal recourse. I can't believe this needs to be said literally every time one of these types of articles gets posted on HN: if you build your business on top of someone else's platform, and have no contracts in place to protect your interests…

> Then this is a case of a tenant agreeing to onerous terms before setting up shop in a retail space

One small caveat - the small business owner had no choice in the matter when they moved in 10 years ago. There was only one mall people would actually visit across the entire world. And that mall has a clickwrap agreement for all their rentals, one which includes a clause that says "and we can change this agreement at will and without notice."

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#493

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:02 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #407

simias wrote: post #378

It sucks that Google doesn't offer better support, but are they really to blame here? Isn't the root of the issue IP and copyright laws and this very nebulous notion of "fair use" that seems extremely easy for IP owners to dispute and win? I see people in this comment section posting alternatives to Youtube but I really wonder if, should they become equally as successful, they could end up behaving any different. Whe…

Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious Google is completely to blame here. Rather than say "Your channel will be deleted for unexplained copyright infringement" they could say "Videos X, Y, and Z contain copyrighted material at timestamps X', Y', and Z'. This material has been claimed, you may dispute it, because this is your first infringement we will allow you to correct the issue, etc." As the video points out, in orde…

[deleted]

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#494

Post by humaniania » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:02 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #476

pdkl95 wrote: post #344

> I run a YouTube channel that is over 10 years old , has over 770,000 subscribers , almost 600 public videos , 120,000,000 views When writing software involved in managing a live, public, massively multi-user system, the traditional unix-style commands that are immediate, often silent, and capable of damaging effects become a really easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. Worse, some commands might let you accidenta…

Two days ago I restored a customer's data from backup because they typed "ALL" and hit OK on a dialog that said "This will change ALL of your things, type ALL to confirm". This dialog only pops up if N > 100, and normally makes you type the number (ALL is a special case). I just do not know how to make this more idiotproof short of making them fax in the request. No matter what you think is sane, some insane person w…

Require a different user's authentication or admin code to approve an "ALL" transaction.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#495

Post by hrktb » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:03 AM UTC

simias wrote: post #378

It sucks that Google doesn't offer better support, but are they really to blame here? Isn't the root of the issue IP and copyright laws and this very nebulous notion of "fair use" that seems extremely easy for IP owners to dispute and win? I see people in this comment section posting alternatives to Youtube but I really wonder if, should they become equally as successful, they could end up behaving any different. Whe…

> What choice do you reasonably have ?

They are the ones providing the tools and also set a number of rules (following the law mostly) to use it. Are you arguing that they can’t improve their tools to add even surface validation, or go deeper and force the filling party to provide enough information for the claims to be reviewable by a human (the receiving party)?

Would the copyright owner sue Youtube for forcing them in the interface to provide evidence of the claims ?

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#496

Post by theturtletalks » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

cedilla wrote: post #392

teh_klev wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> YouTube absolutely responds to DMCA notices, Sure, but these aren't proper DMCA claims. As kristofferR pointed out there are other extra jurisdictional mechanisms that Google employ to make your life difficult as a creator. And then, which laws apply? US, UK, EU, Russian, Indian.... Now sure, it's a private platform and they can shut you down any time. I recognise there ain't no free speech on private platforms. Bu…

It's not entirely clear what type of process actually lead YouTube to terminate this channel, so we can't know either. > there are other extra jurisdictional mechanisms that Google employ to make your life difficult as a creator. That's not quite true. The DMCA is a very strict mechanism. You get a notice, you take down the content, and if the uploader isn't happy with that, they have to sue the claimant. Of course,…

When Github was sent a DMCA for the PopcornTime repo, PopcornTime was able to submit a counter DMCA which allowed the repo to be reinstated. Then, if the repo was really in violation, it had to be proven in court by the original claimant. Youtube doesn't allow creators to file a counter DMCA.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#497

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

simias wrote: post #378

It sucks that Google doesn't offer better support, but are they really to blame here? Isn't the root of the issue IP and copyright laws and this very nebulous notion of "fair use" that seems extremely easy for IP owners to dispute and win? I see people in this comment section posting alternatives to Youtube but I really wonder if, should they become equally as successful, they could end up behaving any different. Whe…

> When you get thousands of videos uploaded at any given moment and probably a huge amount of DMCA takedown requests what choice do you reasonably have?

Legally following the DMCA process. The DMCA process allows a response and does not demand channel deletion. Also the DMCA complaints are supposed to be forwarded.

> That guy makes song covers. He claims it's non-profit, he claims it's fair use. The IP owner disagrees, issues a takedown.

Automated takedown software issues the takedown because it's crappy software that can't tell a cover from infringement. Covers are not new, they are very well protected and very common. This isn't some kind of new internet thing, covers date back to like the dawn of radio.

> I'm not entirely convinced that his "non-profit fair-use" defense would even hold up in court

That he makes money from the cover isn't infringement, anymore than other covers are infringement when they were sold on physical CDs.

> Focusing on big bad google is a bit simplistic here IMO.

Yet other services are capable of handling the DMCA process correctly. Instead Google didn't even forward the DMCA notices, list the specific infringements or give him the legally required ability to respond.

Google is choosing to not follow DMCA and instead just delete channels because it's more cost effective. That's it - this is about a few dollars of profit margin that they're destroying someone else's business they've spent a decade building. So yeah, they're the big bad in this situation.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#498

Post by blisterpeanuts » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:06 AM UTC

kauffj wrote: post #175

More than 25,000 YouTubers now publish to the LBRY protocol, with more coming over every day, for reasons just like this. The total reach of these creators is more than 400,000,000 people. We're just rolling out our mainstream video product explicitly designed to compete with YouTube @ https://odysee.com To learn more about the protocol itself, check out https://lbry.tech

Interesting concept. I've been hoping and wishing for something, anything, to come along and replace Youtube with a freedom-of-speech oriented platform.

But in the FAQ there's this: "LBRY.COM / LBRY.TV allows content to be flagged as inappropriate. Should any content be flagged as illegal, unlawful, harassing, harmful, offensive or various other reasons, LBRY.COM / LBRY.TV shall remove it from the site without delay."

So how do you actually remove stuff if it's so well distributed, encrypted packets, no central authority, no censorship? Seems contradictory.

Or maybe I'm just not understanding how it works and LBRY.TV only represents one implementation of a broader standard that is platformless?

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#499

Post by falcolas » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:06 AM UTC

cedilla wrote: post #392

teh_klev wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> YouTube absolutely responds to DMCA notices, Sure, but these aren't proper DMCA claims. As kristofferR pointed out there are other extra jurisdictional mechanisms that Google employ to make your life difficult as a creator. And then, which laws apply? US, UK, EU, Russian, Indian.... Now sure, it's a private platform and they can shut you down any time. I recognise there ain't no free speech on private platforms. Bu…

It's not entirely clear what type of process actually lead YouTube to terminate this channel, so we can't know either. > there are other extra jurisdictional mechanisms that Google employ to make your life difficult as a creator. That's not quite true. The DMCA is a very strict mechanism. You get a notice, you take down the content, and if the uploader isn't happy with that, they have to sue the claimant. Of course,…

This is kinda missing the point: to appease Viacom and the other media companies when Google took over years ago, they set up a parallel but separate system for processing copyright claims that is in addition the DMCA.

A creator can have up to three strikes, with them disappearing over the course of time if they don't get more strikes. Contested copyright strikes may be elevated to DMCA requests if YouTube finds in favor of the creator, but it's not required.

If you run out of those strikes, your channel is immediately shut down. It's possible (especially with a large backlog of videos) to exceed this strike count before you can use their tools to argue against the strikes. When this happens, your account is shut down, and a "grace" timer is enabled to allow you to try and challenge the copyright strikes (one at a time). If that grace period passes and you're still out of strikes (don't dare to take a vacation), the only remaining choice is to appeal to the public.

No DMCA claims necessary.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#500

Post by chii » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:06 AM UTC

andrewzah wrote: post #452

chii wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that you would be forced to hear the speech in the house, but you are not forced to read/buy the book from the bookstore. Removing it from the bookstore prevents those who wants the book from getting it. Having it in the bookstore doesn't force those who don't want it from reading it!

It does, however, force bookstore owners to carry any and every book. Which is a ridiculous proposition. Instead, you can choose to not support that bookstore owner by shopping somewhere else and rewarding the bookstore owner that -does- carry it. Bookstore owners are not the government, they're free to do all sorts of things and you're free to be a patron or not.

> force bookstore owners to carry any and every book. Which is a ridiculous proposition

it is ridiculous when there's physical constraints, but for digital goods, such as youtube, there's almost no physical constraints.

Noone is saying the bookstore must promote or give prominence to all books equally. But preventing the books from existing by virtue of their platform size is wrong.