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DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

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Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Fox News is streaming over YouTube TV, is it an online service that can be sued for moderating content in bad faith? Who gets sued? Fox News, YouTube TV, my ISP?

Everyone.

Sue'm all and the let the judge sort them out.

Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same is 100% true about religion. 1A does not give you protection from religious discrimination among persons and corporations. It is the Civil Rights Act that does.

Don't be semantic, my point is why isn't speech codified at the same level? Clearly at some point someone said "freedom of religion should mean protection from persons and corporations", why can't we say the same about speech?

It isn't semantics. We give protected classes extra protections because they are attributes of who a person is. To give the same protections to actions that people do would be wildly different.

A salesperson should be able to be fired for shit-talking their own product. A customer service representative should be able to be fired for treating a customer inappropriately. The editor of a magazine should be allowed to edit contributors' articles. Putting speech on the same level as a protected class is ridiculous.

Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#113
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any actual Samaritans out there? How do you feel about that language?

It’s a reference to the Biblical parable of the Good Samaritan. It’s not some racist jab.

Neither are most other terms, but that counts for little.

Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#114
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private organizations have zero obligation to be fair and impartial. If you want a company to be run differently, start your own. It's funny how conservatives were totally on board with deregulation and perfectly fine with corporations steamrolling every one else as long as they were aligned with conservative objectives. Then the moment a powerful corporate faction with liberal-ish sensibilities emerges, they freak o…

1. Please note that ‘obligation’ is not the only standard at play. Companies exist in a social and economic context. (I have previous comments on this topic that can be easily found.) 2. The ‘if you want a company to be run differently, start your own’ argument is tiresome and weak. There are (and should be) many mechanisms to influence corporate behavior. 3. Even the pre-Trump Republican Party has long taken flack f…

> libertarians who essentially argue that one core principle should guide their political philosophy.

this isn't really true of libertarianism even. the word "aggression" from the NAP does a lot of heavy lifting and is subject to a lot of different interpretations.

Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#115

here is the DoJ's breakdown and red-line changes: 1. Incentivizing Online Platforms to Address Illicit Content The first category of potential reforms is aimed at incentivizing platforms to address the growing amount of illicit content online, while preserving the core of Section 230’s immunity for defamation. a. Bad Samaritan Carve-Out. First, the Department proposes denying Section 230 immunity to truly bad actors.…

Oof. That's a good source. Section 5c is particularly problematic. It disallows shadow-bans if I'm reading correctly. Section f9 is...suspicious. Section d4 seems painful for small providers. You lose good samaritan status if there isn't a good way to contact you. Section c2A is the important one. It basically means that a site cannot remove content unless it is objectively obscene or extreme. Section g5A suggests th…

Why do you say "clearly you can moderate based on your ToS"? I don't see anything here would permit the ToS to have moderation criteria such as "off-topic" while retaining the safe harbor. Section c1b is what leads to the conclusion that only the criteria in c2a are allowed, and section c1b doesn't mention "good faith" at all. Furthermore, for many sites such as Hacker News which define their topical focus broadly, "off-topic" could be judged to lack the "particularity" necessary to qualify as good-faith moderation criteria under section g5A.

Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#116
post #49
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All laws in the USA; as is tradition.

All laws everywhere.

The US does have a small amount of protection against this. Selective prosecution can be a reason for a judge to dismiss a charge.

I'm not aware of how often it's used/successful, though.

Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it would be applicable to end-to-end "messengers" like Telegra/Signal/WhatsApp etc. Though I don't see any language there to suggest it is just for online "platforms" but not "messengers". Then again, could be this entire proposal to begin with is intended just for so-called "platforms" not messengers.

> Such designs and operation put our society at risk by: (1) severely eroding a company’s ability to detect and respond to illegal content and activity; (2) preventing or seriously inhibiting the timely identification of offenders, as well as the identification and rescue of victims; To me, that says if a company writes something that prevents or blocks illegal content from being accessed by law enforcement, any immu…

That’s a very narrow theory of it. I read it as saying “if the system is designed to keep out external viewers of the content, then it is illegal”.

That is, E2E encryption, because it is impossible for someone to eavesdrop usefully by design, is intended to be made illegal.

Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#118
post #9

I think that’s fine to ask social medias to choose between being a publisher or a platform. It’s perfectly fine to push your point of view online as it’s protected by the first. But you should bare consequences for the cases not protected by the first.

I think that most of them should remain platforms, but that recommendation algorithms should be treated as publishers. So a reverse chronological feed would be protected by 230, while publishers would be liable for the contents in an algorithmic feed. People can subscribe to whatever sketchy content they want, but it won't be pushed to people that didn't ask for it.

I don't agree with the downvotes: it's a concept that should get more discussion, in the sense of "where should the line be drawn between common carrier behavior and publisher behavior?"

Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#119

here is the DoJ's breakdown and red-line changes: 1. Incentivizing Online Platforms to Address Illicit Content The first category of potential reforms is aimed at incentivizing platforms to address the growing amount of illicit content online, while preserving the core of Section 230’s immunity for defamation. a. Bad Samaritan Carve-Out. First, the Department proposes denying Section 230 immunity to truly bad actors.…

Oof. That's a good source. Section 5c is particularly problematic. It disallows shadow-bans if I'm reading correctly. Section f9 is...suspicious. Section d4 seems painful for small providers. You lose good samaritan status if there isn't a good way to contact you. Section c2A is the important one. It basically means that a site cannot remove content unless it is objectively obscene or extreme. Section g5A suggests th…

>Section 5c is particularly problematic. It disallows shadow-bans if I'm reading correctly.

Can you explain more, I'm not really seeing it...

Also how is disallowing shadowbanning problematic? I always never liked it.

Re: DOJ unveils proposed Section 230 legislation

#120

Almost guaranteed to be used to selectively prosecute.

Laws are always enforced by humans, so this is always true. What is different about these proposals is that they are explicitly prompted by partisan (and personal i.e. Trump) motives which, although it's true of other laws too, is supposed to be the quiet part not said out loud.

The whole premise of investigating for "bias" is clearly designed to be abused - similar to HUAC asking you to prove that you aren't a communist

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