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Wikipedia is getting a new look

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Re: Wikipedia is getting a new look

#31

Post by tomtheelder »

tspike wrote: post #10

> the wide range of functionality on the site can feel overwhelming and difficult to understand I guess it must just be my lengthy history with the web, but this line is like nails on a blackboard to me. It's OK to have to learn how to use powerful tools!

Having to learn how to use powerful tools is absolutely fine when the tool is a specific one designed to be used by power users. For something like Wikipedia for whom the bulk of the audience visits briefly and occasionally to grab information, it's not a good thing. I think a lot of us are scarred by changes like these to our "power tools," which can be incredibly frustrating, but Wikipedia is a different beast.

Your design should fit your audience, and I think it's a good change to have a sidebar with tools that are surely ignored by the _overwhelming_ majority of users not be presented in a persistent, important location.

Also worth mentioning that they aren't removing anything, just altering presentation to better suit the common use case.

Re: Wikipedia is getting a new look

#32

Post by jvzr »

Thaxll wrote: post #6

I don't know why they did that, now we have empty space on the left and right, it's really useless, why is it better than using the full screen? "Our second change introduces a maximum line width to our content on pages where reading is the focus, such as article pages and discussion pages. Research has shown that limiting the width can lead to better retention of the content itself, as well as a decrease in eye stra…

You haven't used a ultra widescreen monitor then. Reading Wikipedia (until today) on such screen was pretty hard, with sometimes a full paragraph on a single, long line. This change is much better.

As for the sidebar (which you don't talk about, I realize) it's very useful for non-English speakers: it's easy to switch from the local page to the English one, and I've used it quite a lot. For switching to other languages as well, when the local article is more knowledgeable than the English one

Re: Wikipedia is getting a new look

#33

Post by formerly_proven »

Thaxll wrote: post #6

I don't know why they did that, now we have empty space on the left and right, it's really useless, why is it better than using the full screen? "Our second change introduces a maximum line width to our content on pages where reading is the focus, such as article pages and discussion pages. Research has shown that limiting the width can lead to better retention of the content itself, as well as a decrease in eye stra…

FWIW, Wikipedia allows you to add custom CSS and JS that are active as soon as you log in.

Re: Wikipedia is getting a new look

#34

Post by mfsch »

kome wrote: post #22
Uehreka wrote: post #19

If someone asked me to critique the UX of Wikipedia, the first two things I’d point out would be that I almost never use the left hand side bar (and I have a feel almost no one does) and that when paragraphs are that wide they become harder to read (especially when they snake around floated images). Not changing for 10 years, watching as some trends fade and others become law-of-the-land, and then making two changes…

I use it very often, just because i check articles in multiple languages.

This has also been my only use of the sidebar. It looks like the new design takes this into account and moves the language selection to a more prominent location at the top right next to the title.

Re: Wikipedia is getting a new look

#36

Post by jrochkind1 »

The detail page for the first feature they mention, limiting line-width [1], makes me think: Wow, it sure takes a lot of analysis and discussion to make what is a pretty straightforward and simple change. (Recall, too, this has been in the works for at least a year? And still isn't deployed to English wikipedia?)

Which makes me realize there's sort of an ironic situation. When a site is beginning and small, you don't worry too much about the precise details of how you've doing things, you figure it's more important to get it out there, and it can always be changed later.

Then, someday, if you're lucky, the site is huge, with lots of traffic, lots of dependencies, lots of people paying attention to it... and you are much more reluctant to make changes, taking them very seriously with lots of consideration... so now are stuck with whatever people decided years ago without much consideration at all!

[1]: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Desktop_Improveme...

Re: Wikipedia is getting a new look

#37

Post by Aerroon »

stabbles wrote: post #4

They could just make the mobile wiki the desktop default too. It is minimal, readable, and clean.

I hope not. I find the mobile wikipedia page awful. I always switch to the desktop site on my phone.

Sections that start out collapsed is terrible for searching. Section headings that themselves are enormous is terrible for browsing. Even the text size is enormous by default - you don't get much of an overview.

Re: Wikipedia is getting a new look

#39

Post by tomtheelder »

matchbok wrote: post #8

> Our first change, a collapsible sidebar, allows users to collapse the lengthy menu found on the left side of each page. This change helps improve usability and focus by allowing people to concentrate on the content itself, whether reading or editing. Ah, more designers trying to justify things. Every site now has a hidden menu/hamburger nonsense, with the goal of "clean" design. It's terrible and hurts UX and disco…

They aren't hiding anything, they are providing the _option_ to hide. I will hide that sidebar and be grateful for it. I'm hugely appreciative of their goal of allowing for an improved reading experience, and they are doing it in a way that will have no effect whatsoever on you if you like the presence of the sidebar. There is no hit to UX or discoverability here.

Re: Wikipedia is getting a new look

#40

Post by jrochkind1 »

tspike wrote: post #10

> the wide range of functionality on the site can feel overwhelming and difficult to understand I guess it must just be my lengthy history with the web, but this line is like nails on a blackboard to me. It's OK to have to learn how to use powerful tools!

I think ideally there might be powerful features of the tool that take some time learning, and that's okay.

But the tool itself should have simple features that can be used by a newcomer too. The tool itself should not be "overwhelming and difficult to understand" -- I mean "overwhelming" is never a plus, is it? The power-user features should be designed in such a way they don't scare off or interfere with more basic use. Rather, the basic use should be low-barrier, and serve as a step to investing to learn the more challenging use.

"simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible." (Alan Kay). Not "everything should be hard and complex because we are resigned that that's the only way to make complex things possible."

I think this is true as a general rule, but it may also depend on the "product" (whether commercial or noncommercial like wikipedia). There may be some products where it's okay if you scare off newcomers, where you know you have a core that will be willing to invest the time to figure out a challenging or even "overwhelming" tool because of it's value to them, and that's all you need/want. But I don't think that's appropriate for wikipedia, I think it is the absolutely correct choice and in line with wikipedia's mission to prioritize making basic wikipedia use as low-barrier as possible for as many users as possible.

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