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The EU is set to declare war on encryption

tech.newstatesman.com

101–110 of 167 posts

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#101

This is a nice reminder that the EU isn’t some benevolent defender of human rights; it’s a surveillance state bureaucracy like all the others. They’ve done a spectacular job at branding, I’ll give them that.

In fairness, its don't much better at human rights than any of its predecessors or competitors...

That's pretty subjective. The right to free speech and to defend yourself + your property is severely diminished in the EU.

The EU and US definitions of "human rights" are pretty different.

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#102
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banks service all of them and nothing much happens to them. Who are the real crooks?

> Who are the real crooks? > terrorists, pedophiles, drug dealers, and money launderers At some point, unless you want everyone making their own personal moral judgements (including people who e.g. don't think women should have rights?), it should be permissible to deal neutrally with everyone who wants to do business with you. Let the law enforcers enforce the law, let the bankers bank. Edit: clarity.

Except they are breaking the law, but are too powerful to be brought to heel, largely because of lots and lots of money and powerful, shady friends.

https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/global-bank...

The Mexican drug cartels could not fit cash through the teller stations quickly enough, so HSBC had special teller boxes so that it was far more efficient.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hsbc-probe/hsbc-became-ban...

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#103

Let’s say they ban end to end encryption tomorrow in their save the children and puppies act. Guess who is still going to use it? The criminals are of course. You can’t ban math.

You don't need to ban math to ban e2e encryption in the same way you don't need to ban physics in order to ban murder. You pass a law making it a crime to develop or use e2e encryption algorithms, and punish those who don't follow the law extremely harshly. The rest will comply because they'll be scared to be punished.

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#104
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banks service all of them and nothing much happens to them. Who are the real crooks?

> Who are the real crooks? > terrorists, pedophiles, drug dealers, and money launderers At some point, unless you want everyone making their own personal moral judgements (including people who e.g. don't think women should have rights?), it should be permissible to deal neutrally with everyone who wants to do business with you. Let the law enforcers enforce the law, let the bankers bank. Edit: clarity.

Banks are multibillion dollar institutions and absolutely integral to modern society. We can give them more responsibility.

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#105
post #87
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How long until you'd need to revert the law, because all legal traffic is now exploitable, while the criminals are still using good crypto? That's a common gun rights argument -- "If guns are illegal only criminals will have guns". How controversial could it be?

Guns are controversial because they kill things and are thus a weapon. Encryption cannot kill anyone, if anything it is a shield. It’s also an infinitely replicable shield, and one that is omnipresent. I don’t think anyone believes they can ban it, but like tax evasion it’s probably going to be a nice excuse they can use to catch the people they don’t like that do use it. For the rest of us, don’t worry—they’ll make…

This is it. They don't intend to stop use of encryption, but it does give them probable cause to investigate or arrest you if you are caught using encryption. It's a tool of law enforcement to get around "blocks" like needing a warrant, etc.

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banks service all of them and nothing much happens to them. Who are the real crooks?

> Who are the real crooks? First they came for the data brokers and I did not speak out because I am not a data broker.

This doesn't make much sense when you think about the context of the original work you're quoting.

Niemoller was writing about a fascist government. Fascism is inherently built on an "us-vs-them" conflict. The details may change, but a key point is there's always an enemy who is responsible for everything that's wrong with the world. When fascists take power, they set out to get rid of the enemy. Then they find that didn't actually fix anything, so they splinter away some of their former in-group and make them the new enemy.

That is what fascists groups in power must do, because of course everything is much more complex than they claim. Nothing is ever as simple as "if we get rid of that group of undesirables, everything will be great", no matter who those undesirables are. Socialists? Capitalists? People who post on HN? Any other group you might name? The answer is never as easy as "those people are bad."

There doesn't need to be a slippery slope from whatever the government wants to outlaw to everyone being a criminal. It depends on the structure and goals of the government. In a fascist state, yeah it's pretty much guaranteed. In the US? Well, we're a muddled mix of everything with a very mixed record and uncertain future, but at least we're not a fascist state. There isn't a guarantee that any step leads to a next step.

So it really isn't analogous to the situation the original work was describing. And it's not really constructive to weaken its point by making jokes applying it to this situation, given the point it's trying to make. But maybe the fact that so many people don't understand the context means it's already too late.

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#107
post #17

> EU home affairs officials have grown increasingly concerned about international paedophile networks and in July unveiled plans to force technology companies to take greater responsibility for reporting them. "Think of the children" cliché will never die.

Zensursula 2.0

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#108
Average Joe doesn't care about their erosion of privacy, infact, they will applaud this decision because privacy is used by criminals and underground pedos in their opinion.

Remember, Average Joe is quiet happy to use privacy invasive products like Whatsapp, Facebook, Instagram, Gmail, Yahoo, Skype etc etc because it is convenient. Choosing privacy friendly alternatives is bothersome and complicated for them.

Privacy will now be viewed as a criminal act of sedition

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#109

I can't wait for the "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" refrains to be trotted out yet again. Inverted totalitarian klepto-plutocracy wins against any individual who doesn't take extra-ordinary measures when it builds a panopticon. "Let's see your 30 year search history and find a crime in there to persecute, I mean, prosecute you with. Or even a professional technical illegality would suffi…

The saying is twisted, because it already assumes privacy is a privilege, which it is not. It's a basic right, written to the constitution

It is? I did a quick search through the Constitution [0] and Bill of Rights [1] and found no mention of the word "privacy."

[0] https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcri...

[1] https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights-transc...

Re: The EU is set to declare war on encryption

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The saying is twisted, because it already assumes privacy is a privilege, which it is not. It's a basic right, written to the constitution

It is? I did a quick search through the Constitution [0] and Bill of Rights [1] and found no mention of the word "privacy." [0] https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcri... [1] https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights-transc...

Suppose it depends on your country. Here's Finland's (10 §): https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1999/19990731

Although the constitution was recently changed (same one) here aswell, so you may very well have a point: https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10436005

It took what, two months to rush the new clause through? It's like being the constitution has no weight on it at all.

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