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Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

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Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#561

Post by vmception »

yborg wrote: post #176
vmception wrote: post #130

> Surely such impressive pay is justified by the equally impressive results Mozilla has achieved? No, it is completely discretionary. I don't consider this controversial because I know it is completely discretionary. Why would it be tied to anything aside from the ability to continue paying that compensation or desire to be compensated that way? The only consideration of a foundation is the nearly tax-free capital gr…

So your argument is that CEO performance should be irrelevant to pay? Are you an executive compensation consultant by any chance?

In a nonprofit organization there is no performance metric.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#562

Post by rattray »

lucideer wrote: post #530
rattray wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're arguing that Mozilla could attract a more competent CEO while paying them much less. How? Who? Would you find someone who hasn't previously run a large, innovative tech org? How would you determine that they'd be good at this job? (Remember, switching costs for CEOs is high).

> It sounds like you're arguing that Mozilla could attract a more competent CEO while paying them much less. The current CEO is well remunerated and seems by many popular accounts to lack competence, so this seems like a relatively low bar as bars go. > How? Hiring competent staff at any level is a challenge and depends on many things; there's no magic bullet. I at no point argued that hiring a competent CEO was easy…

> The current CEO is well remunerated

Average tech CEO pay in 2018 was $6.6mm, probably not including stock appreciation: https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/5/2/18522927/ceo-pay-ratio-t....

I've seen companies overpay for mediocre talent and assume that'll get them good work. Obviously doesn't work – you're right that high salary does not _cause_ high competence.

But if someone truly competent has an offer from the Google Chrome team and an offer from Mozilla, and Chrome can offer 10x more, well, you want to do the best you can.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#563

Post by zurn »

twblalock wrote: post #94
Jonnax wrote: post #13

There's a quote from the CEO saying that they looked at the market and felt like they were being underpaid. And they can't reduce their salary now because it'd be unfair on their families. Firefox has a problem. It gets most of its revenue from Google. They need a different revenue stream but their ideas haven't worked. Their executives are clearly failures. But with such high pay, they're cashing out. Buying themsel…

The Mozilla execs could all make more money at FAANG companies just down the road from Mozilla HQ. If they left, it would probably be pretty hard to replace them with anyone capable of saving Firefox who would settle for less. The same is true for most of the engineers at Mozilla. They could go to FAANGs and increase their compensation quite a bit. So while I agree that the leadership has been bad, executive pay was…

> The same is true for most of the engineers at Mozilla. They could go to FAANGs and increase their compensation quite a bit.

What % of engineers at Mozilla are in SV and other places where Mozilla competes with FAANG? I thought quite a lot of the employees were remote all over the world.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#564

Post by sam_goody »

They had a GREAT CEO.

Brendan Eich.

He not only was heavily involved with destroying IE's monopoly, he was able to start Brave in a punishing market (competing against Google, Apple, and his own FF) and made it a contender.

But, he wasn't woke enough. And for that, everyone will now pay dearly.

I daresay, learning that someone else is entitled to a competing view is difficult. Allowing others to have a view other than yours means that you and those you agree with may pay a cost. But the cost of not allowing any other opinion whatsoever to exist other than the one you believe in will eventually have a much much greater cost, in many more places than you would think. Mr. Eich once gave $1K to a cause that was anti-gay. He backtracked and apologized but was cancelled anyways. The cost of losing the only open contender to the spyware that passes as a browser is but a byproduct of the immature view that destroyed FF. It will eventually come back to kill those that think you are not allowed to marry your mother, and probably, eventually, to those that think you are allowed to be religious.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#565

Post by jrochkind1 »

Jonnax wrote: post #13

There's a quote from the CEO saying that they looked at the market and felt like they were being underpaid. And they can't reduce their salary now because it'd be unfair on their families. Firefox has a problem. It gets most of its revenue from Google. They need a different revenue stream but their ideas haven't worked. Their executives are clearly failures. But with such high pay, they're cashing out. Buying themsel…

If it's unfair on your families to be making only a million dollars a year instead of two and a half, what does that say about the ~99% of America who makes less than a million dollars a year?

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#566

Post by dayjobpork »

andrewgioia wrote: post #545
KingOfCoders wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the leadership at Firefox. FF has been hijacked by a bunch of people who have no interest in the browser and sucked it dry while it went down. Sad for the people at Mozilla who cared about the browser and wrote the code. As an FF user I hope Mozilla does a turn around, gets back its engineering culture and focuses on delivering the best - and most secure and private - browser in the market.

If you have a link or other details I’m interested in who you’re referring to that hijacked/influenced development. I’ve never heard that and am really curious. I too really hope they can turn it around but sadly have been less and less hopeful.

Possibly taking one of the best parts of Firefox, the addons, and replacing it with a system that doesn't bother to support many of the most popular addons.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#567

Post by TheArcane »

bambax wrote: post #253

> Mobile browsing numbers are bleak: Firefox barely exists on phones, with a market share of less than half a percent. This is baffling given that mobile Firefox has a rare feature for a mobile browser: it's able to install extensions and so can block ads. This is true, and indeed very strange. I use FF on mobile and it works perfectly. So Mozilla's problems aren't only technical, there's also a question of market aw…

Is there a unique value proposition to use Firefox on iOS, since due to Apple policy, they can't have addons?

Even Firefox Focus' content blocker works on Safari and not the main Firefox app

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#568

Post by beervirus »

rattray wrote: post #527

This is a pretty unfair article. The author presents firefox market share (a relative term) on one axis and CEO pay (an absolute term) on the other. The sad reality is that the CEO pay should be a relative metric to tech companies of similar size in the bay area, where Mozilla is based. Or at least US tech companies of similar scale. As the internet has enveloped the globe in the last 10 years, a huge amount of money…

The problem is not that the CEO of Mozilla makes a lot of money. The problem is that this CEO of Mozilla makes a lot of money.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#569

Post by jrochkind1 »

rbanffy wrote: post #141
Aeolun wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to being underpaid is to find a new job. Not to suck the organization dry...

Sucking the organization dry is a perfectly valid solution for those who have the power to do so. It's bad for the organization, but the leadership doesn't really care about that.

How are you using the word "valid" there?

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#570

Post by hombre_fatal »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #565
Jonnax wrote: post #13

There's a quote from the CEO saying that they looked at the market and felt like they were being underpaid. And they can't reduce their salary now because it'd be unfair on their families. Firefox has a problem. It gets most of its revenue from Google. They need a different revenue stream but their ideas haven't worked. Their executives are clearly failures. But with such high pay, they're cashing out. Buying themsel…

If it's unfair on your families to be making only a million dollars a year instead of two and a half, what does that say about the ~99% of America who makes less than a million dollars a year?

Also it's just a weird point. Is the point of CEO pay to keep their family in the highest order of lavishness? How is their financial irresponsibility anyone else's concern when it comes to discussing the adequate salary of the position?
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