How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes • Hacker News Board

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#131

Post by ritchiea » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 11:52 AM UTC

partyboat1586 wrote: post #120

ritchiea wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have never been laws against hurting people's feelings. And no one is advocating for laws against hurting people's feelings. We're telling you, if you act like an asshole other people might not like it and that's fair. And that you can get fired for being an asshole. And that the law is merely that the government will not imprison you for being an asshole.

The obvious example is misgendering and the whole Jordan Peterson debacle comes to mind. >We're telling you, if you act like an asshole other people might not like it and that's fair. Trust me abrasive people understand this, some of them get off on it. >And that you can get fired for being an asshole. I agree if you're an asshole it is grounds for firing. I've worked with some real abusive dickheads before who shoul…

I dunno. Start a company where you only hire people with conservative views. Many people from marginalized backgrounds like myself grow up in a world where we have to hold our tongues about how we really feel about things to fit into a dominant culture. Otherwise we get denied opportunities. Boo fucking hoo you can't say exactly what you want at all times and get every possible opportunity and be celebrated as some kind of a hero. Welcome to real life where other people's opinions matter and sometimes people don't like yours.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#132

Post by henrik_w » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 11:56 AM UTC

giu wrote: post #31

A book that helped me a lot in this regard: - "The Power of a Positive No: Save The Deal, Save The Relationship and Still Say No" by William Ury, the Co-Founder of the Harvard Program on Negotiation

+1 for that book. This is how I reviewed it on Goodreads:

"William Ury summarizes the main idea in this book as: Yes! No. Yes? When you say no to something, there is a reason. For example, you say no to working late, because you want to spend time with your family. The first yes is the yes you say to being with your family, and it is the reason you then say no to working late. The third yes is the effort to keep the relationship positive, even though you have said no.

This formula is a great way of saying no in a positive way, and the whole book is spent explaining the formula and how to apply it. There are many examples throughout the book, and William Ury does a great job teaching the reader how to say no in the best possible way. Even if you don’t normally have a hard time saying no, it is still valuable to read, because the system he lays out is so well thought out. It’s a quick read, and all the examples make it even easier to understand."

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1871656944

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#133

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 11:57 AM UTC

cutemonster wrote: post #118

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a fairly blunt, “pithy” chap. This has not always won me friends, but this bluntness comes with a couple of important caveats: 1) I always treat people with respect . This is different from deference . I’ve spent a significant part of my life dealing with people that are sometimes emotionally challenged, coupled with a propensity for dealing with problems violently. Many of these folks react very badly to “snooti…

> less-than-optimal, but I would do it, anyway. How did those things turn out? (Been in similar situations at my previous job)

Comes up all the time between me and my boss with whom I share a mutual respect and, similar to parent, sometimes he was right and sometimes I was right. At the end of the day, it didn't really matter because as a manager the outcomes were his responsibility, therefore he gets the final say.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#134

Post by bananaface » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 11:57 AM UTC

ritchiea wrote: post #82

bananaface wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it difficult is the fact that people respond like this. What did he say that you even disagreed with? He has an "anger issue"? wtf.

So just to be clear, it makes it hard for him to be polite because if he complains about doing a minimal amount of work to not be rude, I say something?

The point is that he didn't even say anything and you jumped down his throat. Imagine if he had.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#135

Post by dxdm » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 12:01 PM UTC

andi999 wrote: post #37

I am thinking about the bigger picture: what if functioning societies need people pleaser? For the individual it is not so good, but there should be an evolutionary reason why it exists (can also be a side effect of something else important of course).

Evolution does not demand anything of anybody, especially not of self-aware people who can make their own realizations about what's good for themselves.

Evolution means adaptation to change; "society" is made up of the people around you, and they will also adapt to changes. Sometimes you need to push back a little to make a comfortable room for yourself between them.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#136

Post by ritchiea » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 12:04 PM UTC

bananaface wrote: post #134

ritchiea wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just to be clear, it makes it hard for him to be polite because if he complains about doing a minimal amount of work to not be rude, I say something?

The point is that he didn't even say anything and you jumped down his throat. Imagine if he had.

He did say something, he said that it bothers him to have to shape the way he speaks to other people so that they are not offended. And what exactly is weird about that? Sounds like life to me. And that he misunderstands free speech which is about the government not being able to imprison you or legally punish you for speech.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#137

Post by tmaly » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 12:07 PM UTC

I like the line from @sivers "Hell yes or no"

As you get older, your time becomes gold. You really have to focus on what is really most important to you.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#138

Post by pawelk » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 12:10 PM UTC

Dahoon wrote: post #129

smoe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the main reasons why I prefer living in big cities. Compared to other places I've stayed, it makes it a whole lot easier to build and maintain human connections with people whose preferences and interests overlap with mine. I also do plenty of activities I'm not really interested in for the sake of socializing. But always just adopting to whatever is most popular at a given time would be soulcrushing t…

I have the excact opposite experience. The closer you live, the more people protect their privacy sphere around them and more often avoid real connections with people they run into, like neighbors. After we moved from living close in the city to outside the city limits, with way more space around us, we went from "hello" when meeting a neighbor to now stopping up and talking for real and taking a real interest in eac…

This is very similar to my experience. I moved from an apartment complex in a city, where everyone was - and wanted to be - anonymous to a village, where people are way more open and genuinely interested in each other. Quality over quantity. Stopping by for a chat, coffee or beer, joining for a walk or bicycle ride, helping out or asking for help etc is something natural here, while in the city would have to be arranged days in advance.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#139

Post by frankie_t » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 12:13 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #29

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

>stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others

Feeling connection to others is one of your own preferences, ultimately you act in your own interest anyway.

The tricky part for me is to evaluate my preferences when they are in conflict and choose what is optimal.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#140

Post by smoe » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 12:14 PM UTC

Dahoon wrote: post #129

smoe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the main reasons why I prefer living in big cities. Compared to other places I've stayed, it makes it a whole lot easier to build and maintain human connections with people whose preferences and interests overlap with mine. I also do plenty of activities I'm not really interested in for the sake of socializing. But always just adopting to whatever is most popular at a given time would be soulcrushing t…

I have the excact opposite experience. The closer you live, the more people protect their privacy sphere around them and more often avoid real connections with people they run into, like neighbors. After we moved from living close in the city to outside the city limits, with way more space around us, we went from "hello" when meeting a neighbor to now stopping up and talking for real and taking a real interest in eac…

I agree that in smaller places such interactions happen more organically. But you are still bound to who happens to live in the vicinity.

In the big city I do have less interactions with neighbors, but on the other hand, whatever my interest is and however fringe, I will find likeminded people.

I reckon it depends a lot on how far away your interests are from the norm as well as which and what part of the city you are living. The neighborhood I'm in, people do spent quite a lot of time in the corner cafes, restaurants and park and are open to make new friends, instead of just leaving the apartment to go to work.