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How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

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Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#111

Post by watwut »

partyboat1586 wrote: post #91
ritchiea wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with being kind and speaking to people with respect while you disagree with them? One of the big problems with the "politically incorrect" or "radical free speech" crowd is that your words can hurt people's feeling. And your tone can hurt people's feelings. And there's no good reason to tell someone "fuck off" when you can politely say no other than maybe you have things you're angry about that you haven…

The >"radical free speech" crowd understands hurting other people's feelings, they just don't believe anyone should be compelled by law not to hurt someone else's feelings.

I dont think it is entirely true. I have many times seen people argue that something like offence does not exist. Or that "hurt feelings" are basically your own fault. Or that put downs or insults are all just about your own weak feelings.

Including on HN.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#112

Post by cpach »

smoe wrote: post #106
closeparen wrote: post #29

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

This is one of the main reasons why I prefer living in big cities. Compared to other places I've stayed, it makes it a whole lot easier to build and maintain human connections with people whose preferences and interests overlap with mine. I also do plenty of activities I'm not really interested in for the sake of socializing. But always just adopting to whatever is most popular at a given time would be soulcrushing t…

I hear ya. Very well stated. I think that the reasons you just stated is why I’m having a hard time adapting after moving from the big city to the small town.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#113

Post by gmueckl »

sideshowb wrote: post #62
Natales wrote: post #34

No means a lot more than “no” most of the time. My mom was Jehovah’s Witness, so I was raised always to take care of “the appearances”, always being polite, even when you disagree. When I moved to the US back in 2000, I “discovered” people have freedom to think and say whatever they want (kind of) and it was OK to dissent. The pendulum went the other way, and I became a big fan of Bill Maher and the “it’s OK to be po…

> Many times, no is a polite way to say f-you. I feel you here, there is too much sugar coating of everything, it's spread to the UK too. We are pleased to serve you at another checkout. We will be pleased to help you on another occasion. The weird thing is some people genuinely seem not to realize that the content of these messages is simply 'no' and actually respond differently to them. Conversely I get more wound…

You're missing the fact the information content of the quotes you give is fundamentally different from messages that say "not here" or "not now" in that they immediately suggests an alternative course of action. This is helpful instead of contrarian.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#114

Post by implements »

cheschire wrote: post #88
closeparen wrote: post #29

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

What has your recent experience been as these opportunities arise in the face of COVID? How does the potential for danger in even mundane social gatherings affect your decision now? In the last 18 months I came to the same conclusion as you and started socializing more, but then COVID happened and then quarantine and while the rest of my office rushes back to doing team lunches and whatnot, I find myself hesitating.…

Looks like a good and pertinent question to me. I’m seeing one old friend for a socially distanced outdoor walk / catch-up because I’ve decided the risk is outweighed by the duty to support people who might need it, and as the top OP says life is about connection, not just satisfying wants.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#115

Post by watwut »

cutemonster wrote: post #107
watwut wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to do this. But it lead to one sided relationships where I was not equal party. I liked people more then they liked me and while I would say yes for sake of relationship, the favor was rarely returned. These relationships were contingent on me being passive and having no preference. I was liked, but did not had real friends (as I found out later).

How did you find out? What happened after that? I think somehow somewhere there're real friends for you to find. Possibly simpler to find if you do new unusual things you didn't try before? Or maybe try a different city or country (if work allows)

> How did you find out?

Nothing overly dramatic happened. Basically people dropped out of my life whenever small change happened, because while I was pleasant to be around, I was not worth any additional effort no matter how tiny.

And I realized that I am never getting my preference. When I asked for my needs or wants, I never got it and people around me disproportionally did not liked it. They liked "yes" me, but as if me suddenly wanting something of saying no crossed unspoken lines. (I am 100% sure I was not impolite or aggressive or too pushy.)

When I wanted to do things I actually wanted to do, I needed to do them alone anyway. And since I subconsciously equated "yes" with "I care for relationship" or basically duty, I was afraid to organize things and have people not come (cause not coming stung more then it should).

> What happened after that?

Basically, I make sure that I am not "yes" person by the start of relationship to not get myself framed that way. And when I have a choice, I socialize with people who accept my right to say no or who are willing to compromise without punishing me in some way.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#116

Post by gjm11 »

dannyw wrote: post #103
cheschire wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has your recent experience been as these opportunities arise in the face of COVID? How does the potential for danger in even mundane social gatherings affect your decision now? In the last 18 months I came to the same conclusion as you and started socializing more, but then COVID happened and then quarantine and while the rest of my office rushes back to doing team lunches and whatnot, I find myself hesitating.…

I think you should consider the actual quantified risk to you and the community. For someone living alone for example and going to work drinks with 5 people, your risk of contracting COVID is very small. Your chance of developing serious complications from COVID is also very small. Your chance of spreading COVID to others, should you isolate once you develop symptoms, is also small. I highly recommend you research th…

> people our age

So far as I can see, cheschire didn't say anything to indicate their age.

Careful with those assumptions!

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#118

Post by cutemonster »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #83
Natales wrote: post #34

No means a lot more than “no” most of the time. My mom was Jehovah’s Witness, so I was raised always to take care of “the appearances”, always being polite, even when you disagree. When I moved to the US back in 2000, I “discovered” people have freedom to think and say whatever they want (kind of) and it was OK to dissent. The pendulum went the other way, and I became a big fan of Bill Maher and the “it’s OK to be po…

I’m a fairly blunt, “pithy” chap. This has not always won me friends, but this bluntness comes with a couple of important caveats: 1) I always treat people with respect . This is different from deference . I’ve spent a significant part of my life dealing with people that are sometimes emotionally challenged, coupled with a propensity for dealing with problems violently. Many of these folks react very badly to “snooti…

> less-than-optimal, but I would do it, anyway.

How did those things turn out?

(Been in similar situations at my previous job)

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#119

Post by agumonkey »

amelius wrote: post #102
agumonkey wrote: post #58

I suffered from this in way I can barely explain. Recently I came to a place where I thought that 'if' you live your life like an adventure where anything you do has to be very exciting, than a yes means you really want to do, not just a 'why not' but something that tickles your soul. And a no was the reflection of that, "I could come, and do that, but it will be boring in a way and I'll only be a ghost which would b…

With that attitude, how do you convince yourself to do chores such as cleaning the house, or writing that boring glue-logic that your boss asked you to implement? I think the only way these tasks can be made exciting would be to build a cleaning robot or write a "glue-logic compiler". But these approaches would probably get you divorced or fired.

I was talking about interpersonal relationships mostly. For work I can't answer much, depending on the context, a job is a job, you signed for it, if the boss respects you and it's important for it to be done then I'd have no issue personally. If the job is disrespectful and not important I'd say no and do something else for the company.

For chores.. that's up to you if want to live in filth. It's hygiene, nobody wants to do it, but it makes the rest (the things that you really like) a lot nicer.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#120

Post by partyboat1586 »

ritchiea wrote: post #105
partyboat1586 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The >"radical free speech" crowd understands hurting other people's feelings, they just don't believe anyone should be compelled by law not to hurt someone else's feelings.

There have never been laws against hurting people's feelings. And no one is advocating for laws against hurting people's feelings. We're telling you, if you act like an asshole other people might not like it and that's fair. And that you can get fired for being an asshole. And that the law is merely that the government will not imprison you for being an asshole.

The obvious example is misgendering and the whole Jordan Peterson debacle comes to mind.

>We're telling you, if you act like an asshole other people might not like it and that's fair.

Trust me abrasive people understand this, some of them get off on it.

>And that you can get fired for being an asshole.

I agree if you're an asshole it is grounds for firing. I've worked with some real abusive dickheads before who should have been fired. The difficulty is in judging what is crossing the line. I've worked at places where people should have been fired (constant abusive sex jokes) and weren't because they held too much power. I've also worked at places where you could get fired for publicly having conservative opinions and where you were constantly walking on eggshells. It's a real tyrany in both cases but I don't see an obvious solution.

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