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Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

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Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#381

Post by captn3m0 »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #350

An honest question: we're seeing many "independent" browsers that are basically a wrapper around Chromium (Brave, Vivaldi, even Edge now) -- does anyone know why there aren't any (that I know of) similar initiatives based on Firefox?

Gecko is much harder to embed. I've seen a few projects, but they aren't anywhere as good. Chromium had Chromium Embedded Framework long before Electron showed up. The dual-nature of Chrome/Chromium meant that the project was always configurable much more easily.

Mozilla doesn't support embedding Gecko these days: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Gecko/Embed...

>Embedding of Gecko is no longer supported. If you currently embed Gecko, you should use an alternate solution, because you will not be able to pick up new security improvements.

They are supporting GeckoView[1], but that's android only.

CEF: https://bitbucket.org/chromiumembedded/cef/src/master/

[1]: https://mozilla.github.io/geckoview/

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#382

Post by rv-de »

bawolff wrote: post #163

Another way to look at it: mozilla is a sinking ship. Being a CEO of a shinking ship looks bad on the resume and is high risk for the ceo (reputation wise). High risk jobs should get higher compensation than low risk jobs. I'd certainly argue that for a normal company. For mozilla though, there is a question of why do you even need a CEO? Does Linux have a CEO? I suspect at least some of mozilla's problems is trying…

the risk of being an unemployed millionaire? lmao

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#383

Post by tomp »

dotancohen wrote: post #343
threatofrain wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see Eich with his own browser vision and executive style over at Brave, where he is unencumbered by legacy bureaucracy or codebases. He wouldn’t have been as free if he were at Mozilla.

The problem is that we have the person who arguably most understands the domain of web browsers, online privacy, and all the legal and ethical aspect thereof, working on another Chromium-based browser. I do not need to elaborate on why a diverse browser ecosystem is important, there are enough threads on that already. Mozilla had this jewel, exactly what it needed to succeed and make the web a better place. He was at…

Favourited! This is a good description of a Pyrrhic victory that is often the result of mode du jour social causes. I expect similar outcomes from #metoo and BLM.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#384

Post by eloisant »

0134340 wrote: post #328
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we shouldn’t have canceled Eich after all...

Ah, another overpaid CEO trying to cash in on the relics of pre-existing browser technology (chrome).

At least Brave isn't trying to pretend it's a non-profit

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#385

Post by slightwinder »

jansan wrote: post #292
findthewords wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it possible that non-profitness does not inherit to a child company? Seems like a conflict of interest.

And why should anyone contribute to an open source project of a for-profit company without being compensated?

non-profitness does not mean no pay. Just that the payment is moderate and not profit-orientated.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#386

Post by lkdsajflkfdsjg »

jacquesm wrote: post #338
coldtea wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you'll be able to attribute that quote to me. Eich fucked up, and should have realized that you can't be leading a flagship of diversity on the one hand and be a bigot on the other Who asked Mozilla to be a "flagship of diversity"? What we wanted off them, and what their mission statement was, is a FOSS browser that supported the open web. Plus, one can be/believe whatever on their personal life, as l…

Nobody asked, but Mozilla took (and still takes) that role. Witness plenty of comments on HN from Mozilla employees reinforcing that. I'm all for the FOSS browser company, the 'support for the open web' is already a step in the direction of losing focus. Just keeping up and having a viable alternative browser out there keeping Chrome at bay is a major job (and one they are currently miserably failing at). > Not to me…

> Nobody asked, but Mozilla took (and still takes) that role. Witness plenty of comments on HN from Mozilla employees reinforcing that.

Then those employees are part of the problem!

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#387

Post by pyb »

patrec wrote: post #158
jacquesm wrote: post #100

> And they can't reduce their salary now because it'd be unfair on their families. That must be a real comfort to all the people they laid off. This CEO needs to go, needs to be replaced by someone who is well versed in technology instead of in law.

Do you see any realistic chance of this happening? Generally if a company is captured by a parasitic leadership sucking it dry, that's it, right? Is there anyone on the board whose interests are more aligned with keeping Mozilla alive (probably hard to do at this point) than feasting on it whilst there is still something left to feast on? Presumably you'd need a few such people.

Are there any examples of a company recovering from what you describe ? I don't know of any.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#388

Post by toyg »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #350

An honest question: we're seeing many "independent" browsers that are basically a wrapper around Chromium (Brave, Vivaldi, even Edge now) -- does anyone know why there aren't any (that I know of) similar initiatives based on Firefox?

The Gecko engine is notoriously beastly to build and be wrapped or embedded. Mozilla tried to improve the situation at various points but seem to have since determined that it’s not worth the effort.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#389

Post by patrec »

jacquesm wrote: post #164
patrec wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see any realistic chance of this happening? Generally if a company is captured by a parasitic leadership sucking it dry, that's it, right? Is there anyone on the board whose interests are more aligned with keeping Mozilla alive (probably hard to do at this point) than feasting on it whilst there is still something left to feast on? Presumably you'd need a few such people.

It is a problem that she is both on the board and CEO, which effectively makes her impossible to hold to account unless the board members that want her out would resign if she does not want to make way. That would be a major statement and would put the remaining board members on notice. The board typically does not get compensated the way the CEO does so they are usually not in a position to 'suck it dry', on top of…

Well, concerning the sucking dry: maybe I'm overly cynical but I wonder if being on the mozilla board is not a nice sinecure (so high effective hourly wage, even if the yearly compensation is not egregious) with a massive CV boost: none of the people I can see on the board of either the corp or the foundation, with the exception of Brian Behlendorf (and I had to look him up) seem to have much name recognition and being on the board of Mozilla might well be the most high profile thing they'll ever do.

Given that, as you seem to agree, Mozilla is probably doomed now no matter what, why would they deprive themselves of these benefits (and possible future similar gigs!) sooner rather than later? It seems extremely unlikely to me the mismanagement is rising to the level of personal liability.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#390

Post by pkphilip »

chrisco255 wrote: post #252
RobertoG wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>"It is interesting to note that Brendan Eich's severance pay when he was forced out of Mozilla was just $113,000" He was 11 days on the job, so, not so bad.

He was a co-founder of Mozilla. What the hell? He had been CTO before he was made CEO.

He was also the guy who invented Javascript
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