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Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

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Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#321

Post by Xylakant »

stef25 wrote: post #310
jacquesm wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> t wasn't long ago that comments were shouting that this was the absolute most qualified person to lead Mozilla when others were questioning having a lawyer lead a tech company. I don't think you'll be able to attribute that quote to me. Eich fucked up, and should have realized that you can't be leading a flagship of diversity on the one hand and be a bigot on the other. But he resigned (he wasn't forced out, though…

> should have realized that you can't be leading a flagship of diversity on the one hand and be a bigot on the other Is it ridiculous to suggest we should just ignore what people think and do in their private lives? I both fully support gay marriage and couldn't give a rat's ass about what the maker of my browser thinks about it (Eich donated 1000$ to Prop 8, 12 years ago). The real problem is that you can pay to hav…

> Is it ridiculous to suggest we should just ignore what people think and do in their private lives?

The problem is that Eich was supposed be leading a team that prides itself for being supportive of the causes that Eich donated against. Bridging that gap became impossible once he was on public record for that.

Having any leadership position requires at least a fundamental trust of the people you’re supposed to be leading.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#322

Post by culturestate »

jacquesm wrote: post #164
patrec wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see any realistic chance of this happening? Generally if a company is captured by a parasitic leadership sucking it dry, that's it, right? Is there anyone on the board whose interests are more aligned with keeping Mozilla alive (probably hard to do at this point) than feasting on it whilst there is still something left to feast on? Presumably you'd need a few such people.

It is a problem that she is both on the board and CEO, which effectively makes her impossible to hold to account unless the board members that want her out would resign if she does not want to make way. That would be a major statement and would put the remaining board members on notice. The board typically does not get compensated the way the CEO does so they are usually not in a position to 'suck it dry', on top of…

> It is a problem that she is both on the board and CEO, which effectively makes her impossible to hold to account

Is this really a problem? The CEO is often a director, and even as chairwoman I doubt anything in the bylaws prevents the board at large from removing her if they wanted to.

Instead, it seems like the board itself is the issue, since they allowed Mozilla to stray so far from its core mission.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#323

Post by lumberingjack »

bambax wrote: post #253

> Mobile browsing numbers are bleak: Firefox barely exists on phones, with a market share of less than half a percent. This is baffling given that mobile Firefox has a rare feature for a mobile browser: it's able to install extensions and so can block ads. This is true, and indeed very strange. I use FF on mobile and it works perfectly. So Mozilla's problems aren't only technical, there's also a question of market aw…

Not only are problems on desktop that linger for years they change stuff on a whim on mobile and when the users complain about it on Twitter they tell you to shut up and are not very nice about it at all don't want to hear your opinion

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#324

Post by jacquesm »

stef25 wrote: post #310
jacquesm wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> t wasn't long ago that comments were shouting that this was the absolute most qualified person to lead Mozilla when others were questioning having a lawyer lead a tech company. I don't think you'll be able to attribute that quote to me. Eich fucked up, and should have realized that you can't be leading a flagship of diversity on the one hand and be a bigot on the other. But he resigned (he wasn't forced out, though…

> should have realized that you can't be leading a flagship of diversity on the one hand and be a bigot on the other Is it ridiculous to suggest we should just ignore what people think and do in their private lives? I both fully support gay marriage and couldn't give a rat's ass about what the maker of my browser thinks about it (Eich donated 1000$ to Prop 8, 12 years ago). The real problem is that you can pay to hav…

It's not about you and me. It is about Eich's ability to effectively lead Mozilla while being on the record about this stance regarding gay marriage. How many of Mozilla's employees are gay and/or in favor of gay marriage? If you alienate roughly 55% (possibly much more) or so of a group you are supposed to lead you have just made your life quite impossible. Eich probably did the right thing to resign, he would have had to either come around on the subject (which he did not) or he'd have to walk.

OkCupid is not a part of FireFox, they were simply trying to virtue signal at Eich/FFs expense, and the empire behind OkCupid (not the original founders) has done a lot worse than anything that Eich ever did.

That would have been easy enough to ignore. But the Mozilla employees were another matter.

Money in politics is a problem in and of itself, that doesn't mean that CEOs living in glass houses should not be aware that if they start throwing stones there will be consequences.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#325

Post by jacquesm »

culturestate wrote: post #322
jacquesm wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a problem that she is both on the board and CEO, which effectively makes her impossible to hold to account unless the board members that want her out would resign if she does not want to make way. That would be a major statement and would put the remaining board members on notice. The board typically does not get compensated the way the CEO does so they are usually not in a position to 'suck it dry', on top of…

> It is a problem that she is both on the board and CEO, which effectively makes her impossible to hold to account Is this really a problem? The CEO is often a director, and even as chairwoman I doubt anything in the bylaws prevents the board at large from removing her if they wanted to. Instead, it seems like the board itself is the issue, since they allowed Mozilla to stray so far from its core mission.

stay/stray.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#326

Post by koolba »

> The real problem is not the royalty cuts, though. Mozilla has already received more than enough money to set themselves up for financial independence. Mozilla received up to half a billion dollars a year (each year!) for many years. The real problem is that Mozilla didn't use that money to achieve financial independence and instead just spent it each year, doing the organisational equivalent of living hand-to-mouth.

Imagine a world where a non-commercial open source browser has billions of dollars in the bank, and through the interest alone, achieves total financial independence to pursue development purely on behalf of its users.

I personally don’t think that world exists because any such situation would get pilfered away exactly like this one.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#327

Post by mythz »

threatofrain wrote: post #297
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we shouldn’t have canceled Eich after all...

We see Eich with his own browser vision and executive style over at Brave, where he is unencumbered by legacy bureaucracy or codebases. He wouldn’t have been as free if he were at Mozilla.

He would've had an iconic brand, elite staff, an established business model & userbase, etc. I'd posit he'd have been a much better technology focused CEO then the leaders of Mozilla's current titanic trajectory into obsolescence.

Instead of Brave where he's having to build a product, brand & userbase from scratch & try to force a niche unproven VC business model with Brave.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#328

Post by 0134340 »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #237
jacquesm wrote: post #100

> And they can't reduce their salary now because it'd be unfair on their families. That must be a real comfort to all the people they laid off. This CEO needs to go, needs to be replaced by someone who is well versed in technology instead of in law.

Maybe we shouldn’t have canceled Eich after all...

Ah, another overpaid CEO trying to cash in on the relics of pre-existing browser technology (chrome).

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#329

Post by d3nj4l »

msy wrote: post #307
threatofrain wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see Eich with his own browser vision and executive style over at Brave, where he is unencumbered by legacy bureaucracy or codebases. He wouldn’t have been as free if he were at Mozilla.

A chromium wrapper that inserts affiliate links? This doesn't seem a compelling argument based on available evidence.

Yeah, I see all of these people implying Eich leaving was the "end" of Mozilla, but what Eich has been up to after Mozilla hasn't been amazing either.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#330

Post by blauditore »

I've been donating to Mozilla for years because I truly like their products and the fact it makes cutting-edge technology more open and accessible to everyone. But paying so much to execs in an NPO is just plain bullshit, especially in light of recent events. It makes me sad to see they dropped Thunderbird and laid off people in order to save money, but at the same time pull this crap.

I'm not someone who generally thinks high exec salaries should be regulated or anything - but in the case of Mozilla it's just dishonest: The slogan on their home page is literally "Internet for people, not profit".

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