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How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

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Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#61

Post by apples_oranges »

closeparen wrote: post #29

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

Great comment. I would add that this ties in with goal setting, which is an activity where you set the priorities for your life. If it's fitness for example you will skip the drinks and go to the gym instead. If it's money you will work on your business and so forth. You decided it's social connections, but it will be different for everyone. It's important to sit down and decide what we want out of life, imho.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#62

Post by sideshowb »

Natales wrote: post #34

No means a lot more than “no” most of the time. My mom was Jehovah’s Witness, so I was raised always to take care of “the appearances”, always being polite, even when you disagree. When I moved to the US back in 2000, I “discovered” people have freedom to think and say whatever they want (kind of) and it was OK to dissent. The pendulum went the other way, and I became a big fan of Bill Maher and the “it’s OK to be po…

> Many times, no is a polite way to say f-you.

I feel you here, there is too much sugar coating of everything, it's spread to the UK too. We are pleased to serve you at another checkout. We will be pleased to help you on another occasion. The weird thing is some people genuinely seem not to realize that the content of these messages is simply 'no' and actually respond differently to them. Conversely I get more wound up when people try to dress up no as yes.

As to a literal f-you however, there are of course ways to say no without resorting to verbal abuse :)

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#63

Post by martinsb »

Teever wrote: post #25

I'd like to hear some comments from people who have experienced a situation where two people pleasers get into a feedback loop where they both start always saying yes to each other. I've experienced this kind of situation before and I'm only recently realizing that this is the nature of that situation and am starting to unravel it.

From my experience: they end in a situation where nobody is happy - they both try to figure out what is the best for the other person and in the end they both end up in a situation that is not good for both of them. I know, twisted.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#64

Post by the-dude »

Kiro wrote: post #60
closeparen wrote: post #29

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

I've done the opposite. I used to do a lot of stuff I didn't want to just because it was a social norm I was afraid to break. I thought I valued the friendships so much that it was worth it but it made my life a misery. I've realized that social relationships are simply not that important to me.

That is not what he is saying at all.

edit: And you are editting your comment without acknowledging it. Not cool, especially when there are replies.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#65

Post by unabst »

Natales wrote: post #34

No means a lot more than “no” most of the time. My mom was Jehovah’s Witness, so I was raised always to take care of “the appearances”, always being polite, even when you disagree. When I moved to the US back in 2000, I “discovered” people have freedom to think and say whatever they want (kind of) and it was OK to dissent. The pendulum went the other way, and I became a big fan of Bill Maher and the “it’s OK to be po…

And it shouldn't. If no is saying fuck you, then that's a far greater problem than being too nice. As if no is politically incorrect. This would have been a far better story actually than the NPR people pleaser pleaser feel good piece.

In Japan there is honne and tatemae. So the corporate (and formal casual) bullshit is formalized. There's a script everyone follows to keep the peace. Then they all go out for a drink, and the cufflinks come off. The best scenario being, you get to say fuck you with the pretense of alcohol even if you're not drunk. And the wives know everything.

So ironically, many Japanese admire the US where there is less of this bullshit. Except, that's only the appearance. Freedom is the tatemae.

So the Japanese system actually works. In a system where you cannot avoid bullshit, scripted bullshit works wonders.

So you need to question the system and those that support it. As it turns out, those that succeed with the system support it, and they're the wealthy.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#66

Post by taurath »

Note that people pleasing is often a side effect of trauma and early relationship. Not that being nice is bad, but when you can’t put up and boundaries or are anxious about saying no that can often be a good indicator. Certainly not for everyone, but it would’ve been helpful for me to hear.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#67

Post by galfarragem »

agumonkey wrote: post #58

I suffered from this in way I can barely explain. Recently I came to a place where I thought that 'if' you live your life like an adventure where anything you do has to be very exciting, than a yes means you really want to do, not just a 'why not' but something that tickles your soul. And a no was the reflection of that, "I could come, and do that, but it will be boring in a way and I'll only be a ghost which would b…

Derek Sivers says exactly that: https://sive.rs/hellyeah

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#69

Post by unabst »

kome wrote: post #48
closeparen wrote: post #29

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

beautifully written. Indeed my problem is the contrary to the one in the article "How to say yes, for people closed in themselves who always say no."

So to put them together: people who say no too much are self-tortured, and people who say yes too much are tortured by others.

Learning to say yes sounds great, but you're on the path to becoming a people pleaser. And people pleasers who listen to NPR and learn to say no are now on the path to... prioritizing themselves over relationships and self-torture.

This can't be right. How do we not torture ourselves?

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#70

Post by qz2 »

jeromenerf wrote: post #47
qz2 wrote: post #21

Watch out for saying no. People you work with learn what things you will say no to and rephrase the question to avoid a let down or start asking the wrong question and then misquoting themselves later. This becomes a cat and mouse game of trying to determine what people’s intent really is. Humans are built for deception. I tend to respond with “let me sit down and think about this” then send them an email with their…

It reads like a glass half empty. The half full maybe to let people know what you say "yes" to. Carrot and stick. I personally don’t deal well with evasive behavior, asking or being asked.

Yes it is glass half empty and intentionally so. The point is that it takes time to reason about problems, understand more than individual perspectives and evaluate solutions to problems. I have shot myself so many times in the past by having a quick answer to a question even if I was previously convinced it was a good idea.

As for letting people know what you say yes to, all problems need the same evaluation therefore which leads to assumptions that you will say yes. Sometimes people don't ask and just assume. Another road to hell.

It's not evasive either. There's nothing to say that you're not going to sit there and work through it with them, engage with other people and come up with a solution based on pooled ideas.

Perhaps I should say I never say yes or no until the adequate amount of research has been done.

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