Well, a child gets to know about his caste first time either from his parents or from the people in the environment he grows up into. In my case I faced reverse casteism, a Brahmin (that's what I've been tagged) rejected by a girl (Rajput -Kshatriya) after she asked me my caste, following a 3 month relationship. Not because she didn't love me, but because of the difficulties that arise due to inter-caste marriages. But after a relationship of 10 years, we finally got married. In those 10 years things had changed in society and inter-caste marriages became more acceptable. So, this casteism is both ways...But again could be karma for me or of my forefathers...Doesn't matter
Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
571–580 of 656 posts
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#572For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…
I'm Norwegian, living there. A very good friend is Indian, her parents moved here while she was just a few years old. I never heard her talk about her caste, or the system in general really. That is, until one day, out of the blue, she said she was getting married. Her parents had found a boy who also grew up here in Norway that she was to marry the following year. After a bit of talking it was clear she was not very…
Shouldn't it be more shocking that your friend agreed to an arranged marriage? I mean I'm not in Norway (pretty close though) and I don't know to what degree this is acceptable in Norwegian culture. But in mine it very much isn't. We ought to expect more from women these days. Because caste might be a completely foreign problem to us, but arranged marriages used to be the norm here as well. It took the second wave of feminism to eliminate that problem and make parents feel ashamed for even trying. We wouldn't want to have that practice sneaking back in through the back door again.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#573Ask yourself what you would expect Indian communist party positions on caste to be, bearing in mind that India has democratically elected (year on year) Marxist state governments with populations larger than many western economies.
It's complicated. What I read, admittedly cursorily, suggests they are still grappling with caste issues.
I hoped for clear answers. The problem defies class based analysis. There are wealthy industrialist from the scheduled classes, there are jains and khatri who choose to live in poverty.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#574Earlier quoted context omitted.
How the empty seats of SC/ST in the IITS reflect that they are disadvantaged? They have much less cut off, many SC/ST give the exam, their fees is much much less than the general category, they get scholarships. How are they disadvantaged ?
My brother living in his hamlet has no electricity after 8pm, has 0 access to coaching and has little to no access to books or anything related. This is circa 2000s though. The village has affluent upper caste people while the lower caste people still do menial jobs Reservations are meant for them. But the city folk who have the most knowledge and access to money abuse this system while real poor lower class people a…
>>I knew of an economically backward class person who wore woodlnd shoes. My parents couldn't afford those shoes, his did yet he had woodland shoes.
Woodland shoes last years, in most cases the only reason you thrown them away because you are bored, they refuse to wear out no matter what you do with them.
I come from a fairly lower-middle class, poor background(Dad was a truck/bus/cab driver over years). I was donated used woodland shoes by a relative during my engineering days. I wore them for years, like even years after I had a job. And I used to walk kilometers during my college days every day.
If you are poor/lower mid income class student. Woodlands is some thing you should consider buying. Its really buy and forget. Also wear jeans, even if you buy cheap ones. I had a pair, I wore them so much the pockets started tearing out. Do this and you can go expense-less for years. This is my version of ramen profitability.
If you are thinking frugality invest in quality. Lower mid class students must invest in woodlands.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is growing up with extreme discrimination not relevant?
Depends. So who should win the 100 m olympics? someone who is fastest or someone who was discriminated against? Which team should win the football match? the team that scores the most points or should the background of the players be a criteria?
There is actually a related system in place at the Olympics which few people talk about. Only 3 people of each country are allowed to compete in a given event. This has led to many athletes in the top 10 worldwide to not be able to participate because they are from a dominating country. For example Kenyans in 3000 steeple.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm Norwegian, living there. A very good friend is Indian, her parents moved here while she was just a few years old. I never heard her talk about her caste, or the system in general really. That is, until one day, out of the blue, she said she was getting married. Her parents had found a boy who also grew up here in Norway that she was to marry the following year. After a bit of talking it was clear she was not very…
Shouldn't it be more shocking that your friend agreed to an arranged marriage? I mean I'm not in Norway (pretty close though) and I don't know to what degree this is acceptable in Norwegian culture. But in mine it very much isn't. We ought to expect more from women these days. Because caste might be a completely foreign problem to us, but arranged marriages used to be the norm here as well. It took the second wave of…
Both were quite shocking to me.
However the arranged marriage did not come as such a surprise, I guess because there's been a fair bit of talk about it here due to other immigrant cultures also practicing it.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#577For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…
Everything you say rings very true to me. Most Indians are very reluctant to talk about this. Of several that became friends when I worked with a team in BLR, only one became close enough that we could discuss it. He himself was from one of the very highest sub-castes (which he taught me was trivially knowable from his surname) but very enlightened. I was shocked to discover that all but two or three out of about fif…
>>It explained a lot of the dynamics I had already observed, like why one of the best engineers in the place had never been promoted
Its not just promotions. It manifests every where. Job interviews, bonus payouts, onsite foreign work opportunities.
If you are a part of a minority group you are expected to be just too awesome compared to your peer groups to even qualify for basic things.
The whole system works in a way that you have to continually outperform your peer group to even qualify working at the current levels. When people say the system is merit based(It's not), they basically mean its a ruthless culling process where even small missteps from a minority person could mean the person losing years.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#578For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…
Out of curiosity: Could an Indian of a lower caste change their name, or be named differently at birth, as to "fake" their way into a different caste?
They often do that. Its called converting to a new religion.
Its one of the most politically hot topics in India for a while now.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#579Earlier quoted context omitted.
During the previous discussions some has mentioned that they converted to a different religion
Both Christianity and Islam observe upper and lower castes in India. What's worse is the discrimination they face sees almost no recognition, since on paper neither of those religions acknowledge caste. A short look - https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-... > 85% of the Muslim representatives in the Parliamentary House are from the 15% (ashraf) upper caste. (PARETO!) A detailed look at it - ht…
[deleted]
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#580Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> The problem is that a caste-based reservation did NOT eliminate caste-based bias. It is not the goal of the reservation system to eliminate caste-based bias. The goal is to eliminate unfair competition by ensuring candidates of equal backgrounds compete with each other. A low caste candidate who was historically denied education can not compete with a higher caste student from an educated family. Hence the candida…
> A poor family can become rich but a low caste person can never become a upper caste as the caste is decided on birth. It is not sound to say a person from a caste who was oppressed for thousands of years should not be given reservation because they become rich in the last generation. I appreciate your comment and you do make some very interesting points. But the above quote seems to contradict the gist of your earl…
This argument doesn't make sense in the Indian context, where historically there has been so much scarcity. In any society where there is so much scarcity every one hoards as much resources as they can for the bad days.
This being the case the individual and the peer groups maximize for their gains at all costs. Its a race condition like scenario, where you have to acquire resources before others do, or others will prevent you from acquiring resources.
This is basically the root of all the problems facing in the Indian system. This system plays out at the level of a language, state, religion, even caste. Once a group acquires power they will ensure even systematically, other groups don't.
Its not just about economically uplifting 1 individual person anymore. If a particular groups holds power they will starve the under privileged person off resources at the first chance. This is why you need a reserved set of opportunities in a pool to avoid resource starvation through bias.
The easy way out of this problem is brutal equality. But even the upper castes, forwards states, progressive linguistic groups, majority religions will refuse to comply to this because it now means vacating a superior social position and being dragged to the level of the under privileged position.
Any scene where we discuss absolute freedom of lifestyle choices, equality and liberty is a net negative to the groups that currently hold power.