541–550 of 656 posts
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Interesting, I'll check it out. The caste system in India was originally based on profession, and people could move around freely between "castes" , at some point it was co-opted by assholes for their benefit.
I find the notion that discrimination based on profession is somehow acceptable extremely strange.
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> Systemic oppression is not erased by hard and honest work of the descendants of oppressors, it must be actively fixed. But it looks like these measures do not solve where the systemic oppression exists. Systemic oppression exists mostly in wealth inequalities, and somewhat in society that restricts access to education for those who are oppressed. Given that is the problem, the solution should be to provide high qua…
I'm all for better restorative justice, but that's not required to, you know, not discriminate against people in the US, as the person I responded to argued for by sympathizing/rationalizing the discrimination. I'm frankly immediately suspicious of the good faith of any comment/post that focuses on rationalizing the oppressor versus fixing an obvious injustice as the post did.
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Interesting, I'll check it out. The caste system in India was originally based on profession, and people could move around freely between "castes" , at some point it was co-opted by assholes for their benefit.
I have been studding Buddhist scriptures and I don't think this true. The following quote is from 2,500 years ago: [The] brahmins say: ‘Only brahmins are the highest caste; other castes are inferior. Only brahmins are the light caste; other castes are dark. Only brahmins are purified, not others. Only brahmins are Brahmā’s rightful sons, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, created by Brahmā, heirs of Brahmā. https://s…
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As a 24yo Indian guy living in the US, I find this comment very confusing. How do I even find out what "caste" I'm in? I've literally never heard that word used in a conversation with other Indian people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Perhaps it's a sign of being sheltered. Kind of like white people in the USA not knowing of their privilege.
In other words: caste-based discrimination is real, and white privilege just seems like a ghost
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> It is common for affirmative action students to not do very well there. Do you have any data at all for this? > Then it is not a stretch to imagine that some of them may not be very good at their job either. It's not right to assume that someone may not be good at their current job because they may (in your mind) have benefited from some "affirmative action" program far in the past (John Doe is 20+ years into his c…
> It is common for affirmative action students to not do very well there. Do you have any data at all for this? No. Only my observation from when I went to IIT for my undergrad about 2 decades ago. At that time they even used to have remedial classes for students who came in through the reservation system. Again, I would like to emphasize that not all of those students were having difficulties coping with the workloa…
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>> The problem is that a caste-based reservation did NOT eliminate caste-based bias. It is not the goal of the reservation system to eliminate caste-based bias. The goal is to eliminate unfair competition by ensuring candidates of equal backgrounds compete with each other. A low caste candidate who was historically denied education can not compete with a higher caste student from an educated family. Hence the candida…
> This is roughly comparable to the weight divisions in boxing. The divisions exist because it is unfair to let a lightweight boxer fight a heavyweight fighter. In your example if the son of a lightweight boxer happens to be a heavy weight boxer he will not be made to fight with a lightweight boxer right? The idea of reservation in its current form sounds great when talking about a generation or two, but it starts to…
I used that example to emphasize on the importance of having categories in the competition to ensure fairness. I do not wish to extend the analogy in a way it was not intended. Keeping the analogy aside, let me address the essence of your question.
The problem of caste discrimination is deep rooted and it existed for a very long period of time. Expecting a family to come out fully from the effects of the discrimination in a single generation is not reasonable.
>> You have created a system which never fully solved the root problem.
As I said earlier, the goal of the reservation system is not to solve the caste system. The creators of the system very well understood that a deep rooted social problem that existed for thousands of years can not be eradicated by a mere statute. The system was intended to serve as a crutch; not as a treatment for the broken leg. I am against using the crutch forever. I am also against removing the crutch without treating and healing the broken leg first.
>> You are talking as if that person witnessed the caste oppression for thousands of years.
The oppression still exists so as the effects of the oppression that they did not witness for thousands of years. 99% of the Hindus cannot become a priest in Tirupati Tirumala and most other temples. Inter caste marriage is still not widely accepted. Honor killings are still happening. The social and psychological effects of a thousand year old oppression is as powerful as the oppression itself.
>> If a lower caste family has become wealthy and rich due to reservation, how is their usage of caste based reservation for their grandkids really solving the root problem?
You are equating economic status to social status. I have explained the distinction in my previous comment. Again, the system is not intended to solve the root problem.
ITT: (Possibly) "Upper caste" Indians claiming: 1. This is due to a few bad apples 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) 3. I don't do it therefore it doesn't exist I can tell you by experience the amount of concious and unconcious bias regarding caste amongst Indians both in India and abroad is ridiculous! I'm light skinned so people assume I'm "upper caste" and speak with me as such. My last name doesn't…
> 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) Of course Reservation IS the problem if you're unfortunate to be an upper caste. The problem is that a caste-based reservation did NOT eliminate caste-based bias, it amplified it. More and more castes, outside the original designation, demanded it in exchange for votes, and more and more upper caste Indians felt cheated as they lost limited opportunities that should…
Even with this low bar SC&ST are unable to get in. It shows how disadvantaged they are as a population.
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> they even used to have remedial classes for students who came in through the reservation... it is not uncommon for the general category students to crumble under pressure as well. So it sounds like IIT is generally a tough place to study at, regardless of how you get in. Surely you would agree that how someone got in isn't really relevant after they've been working for 2 decades? > in a class of mostly 4.0 students…
I am not sure why you are arguing. I did not say I know the circumstances of this particular situation. I am not making any claims about the ability of any student to learn and do well in any course. All I am saying is that throwing a bunch of under prepared students into the fire, potentially judged for every action, mistake or attempt to learn is a tough situation to be in. Under these circumstances at least a few…
I'm disagreeing with the whole idea of generalizations. When it comes to people, no generalizations work. You have to look at what's in front of you, rather than what you believe there should be based on what you think their past is.
There is not much people can do about it, it would be risky topic to address. If true, it goes without saying that this is completely unacceptable on many levels. It breeds serious negative sentiments: I have heard other employees talking quite badly about the situation and Indian employees involved. Several people, all I talked to actually, actively try to leave that team.
I know that forming a cohesive subgroup in a foreign culture probably gives comfort, but (to the degree that this is all true) I'd urge Indians working abroad not to do this. It'll eventually have negative consequences for everyone involved. I was seriously surprised by the sort of negative comments I have heard from non-Indian team members.
ITT: (Possibly) "Upper caste" Indians claiming: 1. This is due to a few bad apples 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) 3. I don't do it therefore it doesn't exist I can tell you by experience the amount of concious and unconcious bias regarding caste amongst Indians both in India and abroad is ridiculous! I'm light skinned so people assume I'm "upper caste" and speak with me as such. My last name doesn't…
> 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) Of course Reservation IS the problem if you're unfortunate to be an upper caste. The problem is that a caste-based reservation did NOT eliminate caste-based bias, it amplified it. More and more castes, outside the original designation, demanded it in exchange for votes, and more and more upper caste Indians felt cheated as they lost limited opportunities that should…