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The Era of Visual Studio Code

blog.robenkleene.com

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Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#371

Post by imwm »

willbw wrote: post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

Not a problem I've encountered, but one that will be solved by the robust extension ecosystem of VSCode. You can apply this to any UX problem you might encounter with VSCode.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#372

Post by throw_m239339 »

gruez wrote: post #328
orange8 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the very definition of a programming language eco-system? Or is the point you are making being you do not like eco-systems?

As opposed to something like python, which is "batteries included".

I agree that there should have been some kind of "core" package for Node.js that is supervised by the developers but still an optional download, but the people that were initially in charge of NPM fought that idea to death in order to make people... use and rely on NPM.

Some people absolutely took advantage of the situation from a financial standpoint and created a business opportunity for themselves, at the expense of the community.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#373

Post by spullara »

btown wrote: post #270
varispeed wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience out of the box you get poor performance and you have to spend a lot of time figuring out how to change configuration to improve it as knowledge is scattered in many places and not always up to date. Then it still likes to stall from time to time or sometimes doesn't register key presses properly. It's a poor user experience, but even worse is that alternatives are often worse. I wish there was an e…

I see them as complementary. VS Code shines if you’re jumping between independent codebases for distinct projects, and startup time matters. But my startup monorepo I keep loaded in IntelliJ for days at a time and have never looked back. For the 1% of time it’s laggy due to a JVM GC or background indexing, the other 99% of the time it’s immensely productive to have e.g. full-stack debug breakpoints that Just Work, we…

I wonder if ZGC in Java 15, now that it is GA, would clean up any lag folks see.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#374

Post by risyachka »

willbw wrote: post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

If only JetBrains made their IDE version that eats less RAM I would gladly pay twice as much for it.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#375

Post by dragonwriter »

tomc1985 wrote: post #368
dheera wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way people use Java is a problem. Spin a blank "hello world" project in Android Studio and you get no less than 79 files, and it won't work the next time you update Android Studio because of some Gradle errors. I don't know what went wrong, but "hello world" should not be 79 files, it should be something that I can hand-code in something less than an IDE.

Yeah but "Hello World" in actual java is a main class and a quick write to stdout, like most any other normal (programming, not scripting) language

> Yeah but "Hello World" in actual java is a main class and a quick write to stdout, like most any other normal (programming, not scripting) language.

Scripting languages are programming languages, and a class with a method is only typical of a narrow class of languages (most of which that aren't Java are specifically designed to closely follow Java); leaving aside those programming languages typically called “scripting” languages, in C++ it is just a function, just like C; D is pretty similar (as are most procedural languages, including those like C++ that also support class-based OOP without being obsessive about it, and also most impure functional languages.)

In Haskell it's just: main = putStrLn "Hello, World!"

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#377

Post by dragonwriter »

dheera wrote: post #264
winrid wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java doesn't have a lot of friction. In fact, IntelliJ is probably the closest you'll get today to the "golden age" of programming with something like Turbo Pascal. Also, good luck doing major refactoring with a text editor. In 2020 we can do better than find and replace.

The way people use Java is a problem. Spin a blank "hello world" project in Android Studio and you get no less than 79 files, and it won't work the next time you update Android Studio because of some Gradle errors. I don't know what went wrong, but "hello world" should not be 79 files, it should be something that I can hand-code in something less than an IDE.

> Spin a blank "hello world" project in Android Studio

That’s Android Studio’s default workflow designed around the expectation that it's going to be used for building Android apps in a particular style, and to optimize for what is usually appropriate for that, which is very much not “Hello, world!” optimized.

As much as Java is a needlessly verbose language, the problem you are looking at is an particular IDE / build system / project type combination issue, not a Java issue.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#378

Post by pier25 »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #307
no_wizard wrote: post #225

Question I have for everyone who doesn't use an IDE What is your workflow? I find the following to be true, in that one of 3 things happens inevitably: 1. The Text Editor becomes the IDE, (e.g., with VSCode, if you just live in plain HTML, CSS/SCSS/LESS and JSX/TSX/JS/TS all day, its actually pretty great, lots of well maintained extensions and Microsoft really put their energy into capturing into this market with VS…

I run a pretty much stock configuration of Sublime Text alongside gnome terminal. I have no issues navigating projects as large as gecko/WebKit/Linux and getting spun up on a new language is really fast: Open the project, maybe install syntax highlighting if needed and you're good to go - as opposed to finding/installing an IDE. My last Job had a large Java codebase and all my colleagues used Java based IDEs. I didn'…

Same. I use Sublime with very few extensions.

I have my own extensions for JS/CSS snippets and my custom color scheme, but that's it.

I've used VSCode and Atom for a couple of years but they feel so bloated once you have multiple projects open at the same time.

It's probably because I'm getting older, but I also find the UI quite annoying and distracting.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#379

Post by throwaway8941 »

nightowl_games wrote: post #334
varispeed wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience out of the box you get poor performance and you have to spend a lot of time figuring out how to change configuration to improve it as knowledge is scattered in many places and not always up to date. Then it still likes to stall from time to time or sometimes doesn't register key presses properly. It's a poor user experience, but even worse is that alternatives are often worse. I wish there was an e…

JetBrains products _are_ pretty much the best. I think Android Studio + Kotlin is the best, most impressive IDE experience I've ever had. Mostly because Android Development in general is kinda hard, and Android Studio cleans it all up so nicely for you. It really outshines XCode in this regard. I've never used CLion but I really want to. That being said, I think it's clear that VSCode is, and will remain, dominant. F…

If you do decide to get a clion license, cppcast.com has a discount code for personal license which shaves 25% off the first year.

I won't post it here, just fish it out of the podcast, it's very nice.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#380

Post by theCodeStig »

cutler wrote: post #200
zeroxfe wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two decades of vim here, and I switched to VS Code. As a "professional developer", it's just nicer to use, and makes me feel way more productive than ever. I definitely wouldn't call it a toy.

It's not like you have to give up Vim anyway considering the good-enough VSVim plugin gives you most of the Vim basics. Personally I have found JetBrains' Vim plugin to be the best.

I've tried vim support extensively in VSCode, IntelliJ, and Emacs. The vim plugin for VSCode is sorely lacking; particularly with macro support. For my use case, it's unusable. The vim plugin for IntelliJ is slightly better. It's usable, but I still find it lacking. In my experience, the best (by far), is Evil for Emacs.
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