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The Era of Visual Studio Code

blog.robenkleene.com

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Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#181

Post by bsder »

alexmcc81 wrote: post #50
laksdjfkasljdf wrote: post #15

VS Code, the text editor, is a trojan horse. Microsoft is selling you into the IDE, in small portions. This is similar to the IBM approach with JAVA last decade(s?). You install a "text editor" for simple things, like code completion. Before you realize you don't even know which compiler you are using or where it came from. You just press F5 and look at convenient break points. And somehow it only runs right on Azure…

You're right - it is a trojan horse and people are eating up the 'MS heart Open Source' PR. It's obvious when you look at what they're doing with language servers. They've replaced the open source Python language server with a closed source one. The C/C++ was always closed. Their remote feature and collaboration tools are also closed. They're slowly making people depend on MS services without even realising it. They…

> They've replaced the open source Python language server with a closed source one. The C/C++ was always closed. Their remote feature and collaboration tools are also closed. They're slowly making people depend on MS services without even realising it.

So, what you're saying is that the absolutely enormous number of Python and C/C++ people can't produce a decent open-source plugin while tiny communities like the Rust folks can?

I don't like what Microsoft is doing here, but, let's be honest, the "open source community" has also spoken and what it has said is "We are a bunch of cheap, selfish jerks."

You don't have to fund very many programmers to create these plugins. Full-time funding for maybe 5 or 6 programmers per plugin can pull it off (and maybe not that for something like the remote development plugin). And not all programmers around the world cost $200K per year. However, even if they did, that's $1 million per year to support a plugin.

So, no company or individual out of the entire Python or C/C++ ecosystem thinks that's a worthwhile expense? No group of 5 or 6 companies think that's a worthwhile expense?

As we found with OpenSSL and other open source projects, no, apparently they don't.

Don't bemoan Microsoft's licensing when the problem sits with the "open source community" being cheap bastards.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#182

Post by chillfox »

jyriand wrote: post #108
barkingcat wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need all the plugins. You just need a curated set. And some of the plugins are fantastically high quality. The Microsoft Python one is excellent, as is the Remote development one. I'm a fan of VS Code because in spite of it having a plug in system, there are great plug ins there. And that one single great plugin is all that is needed (for that specific purpose)

Does VSCode have something similar to emacs’s spacemacs, doom or prelude?

I think Facebook did make something like that a few years ago.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#183

Post by jolux »

cutler wrote: post #177
syshum wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the difference between an opinionated vs non-opinionated IDE You seem to prefer opinionated, where other people like the fact they can pick and choose from various plugins to my their IDE their own, and if they do not like the default implementation of a feature there likely is another plugin that may work for them. For example there are a couple of git plugins, all of them act slighty different based on the…

I thought that until I realised IntelliJ Ultimate is really IntelliJ + WebStorm + PHPStorm + RubyMine + PyCharm + Goland and with plugins you're covered for most major PLs except C,C++ and C# which require 2 separate IDEs.

And Swift/Objective-C require AppCode. They all have a fantastic SQL/database admin tool built in as well.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#184

Post by Kipters »

cutler wrote: post #177
syshum wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the difference between an opinionated vs non-opinionated IDE You seem to prefer opinionated, where other people like the fact they can pick and choose from various plugins to my their IDE their own, and if they do not like the default implementation of a feature there likely is another plugin that may work for them. For example there are a couple of git plugins, all of them act slighty different based on the…

I thought that until I realised IntelliJ Ultimate is really IntelliJ + WebStorm + PHPStorm + RubyMine + PyCharm + Goland and with plugins you're covered for most major PLs except C,C++ and C# which require 2 separate IDEs.

JetBrains has Rider for C#

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#185

Post by toupeira »

laqq3 wrote: post #117
ezluckyfree wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this feature doesn't work in open source builds of VSCode, it's an MS only thing.

I read about this fact elsewhere also. Could you expand on this a bit? My impression was that VSCode and its associated extensions are open source, so I'm curious how Microsoft could make certain parts exclusive to its own build of VSCode.

The situation is similar to Google Chrome/Chromium: Most of it is open-source, but the release binaries contain some proprietary bits for telemetry, marketplace access, etc.

A FOSS build is available at https://vscodium.com/

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#186

Post by jolux »

drdaeman wrote: post #173
andrewstuart wrote: post #21

I'm not a fan of VS Code because everything is a plugin. And plugins are inconsistent, buggy, inconsistently documented, hard to use and find and update and goodness knows who developed them. Plugins can be duplicated, outdated, abandoned and incompatible. But worst of all, a big pile of plugins isn't a consistent integrated product vision. I gave VSCode a solid go, and I had to keep installing plugin after plugin, b…

I think it's the core product values for me. JetBrains IDEs are development environments, meant for editing code, in specific primary language. They really try their best to understand code that user works on (which is a hard problem, because code is frequently invalid while it's being actively edited), and make it as convenient as possible. VSCode is - in my understanding - essentially, a step over older glorified e…

IntelliJ Ultimate has support for all of the languages except C/C++, C#, and Swift/Objective-C.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#187

Post by jolux »

Kipters wrote: post #184
cutler wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that until I realised IntelliJ Ultimate is really IntelliJ + WebStorm + PHPStorm + RubyMine + PyCharm + Goland and with plugins you're covered for most major PLs except C,C++ and C# which require 2 separate IDEs.

JetBrains has Rider for C#

Yeah but you need to pay separately because it’s based on ReSharper, there’s no .NET plug-in for IDEA Ultimate.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#188

Post by [deleted] »

barkingcat wrote: post #120
jyriand wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does VSCode have something similar to emacs’s spacemacs, doom or prelude?

are you asking if anyone implemented the 3d first person shooter DOOM inside of the vscode plugin system? that could be a summer of code project for some aspiring coder.

[deleted]

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#189

Post by zo1 »

scottmcdot wrote: post #29
w0m wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i take it your an Ed guy.

To be honest, when I first heard my colleague say they were using "visual studio code" to develop their Python apps I thought they were repurposing some Microsoft vb.net IDE and hacking it to mesh with Python

The same team that does a bulk of the "python" language service dev for VS Code did the main plugin for python development in Visual Studio. It was actually pretty good.

https://github.com/Microsoft/python-language-server

https://github.com/Microsoft/PTVS

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#190

Post by catern »

>TextMate, released in 2004, is arguably the most influential text editor ever.

>TextMate’s most important innovation was that it was the first popular text editor that was primarily built around extensions.

I actually laughed out loud when I read this.

Emacs invented the extensible text editor. Emacs was very popular for a long time. It's less popular today, but it's the original prototype for Visual Studio Code and every other text editor "built around extensions". Not a MacOS-only proprietary text editor written in C++ and released in 2004.

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