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The Black Vault: A FOIA obsessive’s UFO-filled empire

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Re: The Black Vault: A FOIA obsessive’s UFO-filled empire

#41
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder about the extent to which the CIA really believed this was possible, or if it was more along the lines of "well sure, it sounds batshit, but the Soviets are doing it and if there really is something to it, we don't want to be behind in the game." When one has infinite funding and no ethical oversight, the pit really is bottomless.

Mkultra seems pretty plausible to me, at least with the science they had at the time. LSD was making huge waves in the psychiatric community, and many humint objectives like interrogation and brainwashing are inherently applied psychology. LSD was a breakthrough tool that laid the psyche bare, if only they could discover how to harness it. Combine that with amoral thinking about the cold war and "greater good" and it…

It's funny you mention that, because the first thing that crosses my mind, whenever I run across stuff like this, is that the people who perpetrated these things were probably nice polite folks who had friends, got along with their neighbors, were kind to their families, and held the door open for people when they went to the supermarket.

And then they went to work every morning and played their part in monstrous endeavors that—on coming to light—make the rest of us question our faith in humanity.

I don't doubt that some people who wind up doing these things are legitimately sociopathic. But I also have a disturbing suspicion that many of them were probably normal, and bought into the idea that drugging and blackmailing some random person played a role in defending America. What matters more—some lowlife from the streets, or national security? Sacrifices have to be made, etc.

Pretty much every atrocity I know of—while spearheaded by evil people—relied heavily on the ability of normal, decent people to rationalize what they were doing.

Re: The Black Vault: A FOIA obsessive’s UFO-filled empire

#42
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what is a plausible mechanism of action for this? I think that’s why people assume it is bullshit.

Speaking as someone who has seen evidence that remove viewing actually works, put simply: we don't know. But it certainly implies that we don't know everything about the universe and how it works. I would also point out that any non-obvious technical advancement wouldn't have a plausible mechanism of action, until we learn enough to figure it out. It's a puzzle I would certainly like to figure out. But it's also a pu…

Exactly, except for your last sentence I totally agree. I wish this was a more widely held view. How interesting would it be to build devices that interact with this effect, among other benefits that could come from research and wide use.

I don't know if there's classified accepted theories about how this works, but I think there's no public info that has been supported by science.

Your last sentence I think it's maybe a factor why it's classified... But I think the fact that this is a weapon and intelligence source must be the main one. But given that, why would there be so much unclassified from center lane? I think it only makes sense logically if they have a countermeasure... Which is super interesting in itself.

About the future I don't think it changes it or affects free will as much as people think and not more than anything else. For instance say you're driving down the highway and you're trying to get to some place and what can you do you don't have a map you can just read the signs and try and make the right turn offs and then find your way there. But if I stop your car and give you a GPS suddenly you know exactly how to get there and maybe the information is not always accurate but it's better than not having a map at all. It lets you see down the highway and down the path much further than if you didn't have that augmented information. I think this ability is just like that. Did the GPS change your future because it told you that there's traffic up ahead or this particular route is going to be quicker than this other route or does it mean you don't have free will because it showed you the correct turn off starts here and you then take it, whereas if you didn't have this GPS you were going to miss it.

I think every creature needs to have some idea of the future in front of it so I think everybody's always getting some sort of model of or information about their possible futures and they're making choices with regard to that.... does that information or them having choices mean that the future is predetermined or there's multiple paths...I think that's a separate maybe philosophical question. But I think all that this kind of ability does is augment and provide more information about those possibilities. I don't think it's fundamentally changes the game on the question of free will or predetermination.

I have my own theory about how it works. That there's the informational field, which contains all information about everything that ever exists, and you can tune into, and query this. I think there's quantum structures in our brains that are transceivers to access this. I wonder what's the overlap between consciousness and this informational field.... And is the informational field encoded in particles/fields we can already detect, or something else.

Re: The Black Vault: A FOIA obsessive’s UFO-filled empire

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than watching the goats movie which is pretty bullshit, search the CIA library for "CENTER LANE SPECIAL ACCESS PROGRAM" which was the DIA's remote viewing, remote influence program utilizing psychoenergetics. It resulted in at least "3 intelligence community firsts", was rated by Joint Chiefs of Staff as producing intelligence qualitatively the same as other sources, and (even tho it continued long after) unti…

But what is a plausible mechanism of action for this? I think that’s why people assume it is bullshit.

I don't understand how consciousness works and I can't say I have first hand experienced your consciousness, but I don't assume your having consciousness is bullshit... I suppose because you're a person... and I can see the effects of your consciousness.

Re: The Black Vault: A FOIA obsessive’s UFO-filled empire

#44
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who has seen evidence that remove viewing actually works, put simply: we don't know. But it certainly implies that we don't know everything about the universe and how it works. I would also point out that any non-obvious technical advancement wouldn't have a plausible mechanism of action, until we learn enough to figure it out. It's a puzzle I would certainly like to figure out. But it's also a pu…

Exactly, except for your last sentence I totally agree. I wish this was a more widely held view. How interesting would it be to build devices that interact with this effect, among other benefits that could come from research and wide use. I don't know if there's classified accepted theories about how this works, but I think there's no public info that has been supported by science. Your last sentence I think it's may…

Well, to be honest my last sentence was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I truly do want to know why and how it all works. I'm just not comfortable with the idea that anyone with the know-how to do this can invade my privacy, and there's nothing I can do about it.

And I'm not comfortable with the idea that a skilled enough person can use remote viewing to predict the future with near-100% accuracy. Firstly, it just doesn't seem fair. :) Secondly, it makes me question my own free agency in the world. For example, imagine I remote-view your future 5 years from now. Today you might scoff, thinking it's likely to be bullshit. But imagine that ALL my predictions eventually come true. It would feel like the exact opposite of the butterfly effect... as if the moment I viewed your future, it was "observed" and thus became reality. Every decision that you make (or anyone in your life makes) was, from the moment of my prediction, set in stone. I would like to think that the world doesn't work like that... but strangely enough, that's what I've experienced.

Re: The Black Vault: A FOIA obsessive’s UFO-filled empire

#45
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, except for your last sentence I totally agree. I wish this was a more widely held view. How interesting would it be to build devices that interact with this effect, among other benefits that could come from research and wide use. I don't know if there's classified accepted theories about how this works, but I think there's no public info that has been supported by science. Your last sentence I think it's may…

Well, to be honest my last sentence was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I truly do want to know why and how it all works. I'm just not comfortable with the idea that anyone with the know-how to do this can invade my privacy, and there's nothing I can do about it. And I'm not comfortable with the idea that a skilled enough person can use remote viewing to predict the future with near-100% accuracy. Firstly, it just doesn't see…

That's really interesting. Does predicting it alter the path and fix it more than if you didn't know? I suppose you can always, "choose against" once knowing... But i think most people can relate they have moments of free will and moments where they felt out of control, such as suddenly overcome with emotion in the moment and said or did something they might not have had they thought more. Interesting, I wonder if no matter how far you try to run from your "fate", these little moments of "giving in to temptation" drag you back to the predicted path... Who knows

Anyway, I'm really curious to know the story and details of what happened. If you don't feel like sharing here, you could email me if you still wanted to tell it :)

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