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UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

auditor.ca.gov

51–60 of 456 posts

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#51

Meanwhile, the same California government is trying to legalize discriminatory race-based admissions.

re-leaglize. It was legal until the 90s. When it became illegal, the diversity on campus dropped significantly.

There is an argument to be made that the race-based admissions help make up for prior injustices.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#52
post #46

Have a rule. Our republic, and the California state government, is based on rule of law. One group makes the laws, another enforces it, and a third interprets the conflicts. This works. What we have here is a 'no rules' set of actions. How about rules that say "we will take any student for $200K/year". This is enough money to supply extra supervision and also give a full scholarship to another student.

The idea of privilege first entered the public sphere in the prelude to the French Revolution. "Privilege" in Old French literally means "private law".[1] It was the idea that a different set of rules for each of the Estates (Clergy, Nobles, and Commoners) was both fair and natural. Are we are starting to see similarly different sets of rules for each class in the United States? Is such privilege in accordance with o…

Can it be? Are the rich starting to follow a different set of rules?

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#54

In this day and age, with all the fierce competition, it's a real problem that elite universities are admitting rich kids on such unfair and uneven grounds. Going to the "correct" school can transform the life of some people, essentially pulling them up from the lower working classes, and opening up the doors to middle, or even upper-middle classes. And what's even worse, a lot of these rich kids could go pretty much…

And just in case anyone thinks the idea that an elite school won't help a rich kid, there have been studies indicating that is the case.

The one that comes to mind was the study that compared long term outcomes of students who were accepted to Harvard and attended to those who were accepted but did not attend.

Average future incomes were not statistically different.

But the study did note that the starkest improvents in future incomes were found in poor and minority students.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#55
This is bad, but 64 students isn't all that much. It pales in comparison to private colleges. For example, Harvard accepts about 1/3 of its students as "legacy". If you believe the lawsuits about Harvard's anti-Asian discrimination, that also affects hundreds of potential Harvard students every year. Once you consider that UC Berkeley is about five times larger than Harvard, and that there are at least a dozen top-tier private schools with similar policies to Harvard, this seems like a much smaller problem.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#56
Rather than claim that students are admitted based on test scores and grades alone, why don't universities simply say that admissions are also based on factors such as how influential or wealthy the parents are? Doing so would not be a problem, the only problem is not being transparent about it. Stanford is very clear about the fact that "legacy" applicants (meaning their parents or siblings are at Stanford and presumably the family will be active donors) get priority.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#57
At the end of the day, why would I care what the rich waste their money on? If they want to pay twice as much for half the education, eh its their dollar. I'm pretty sure college is a business, and asking businesses to leave paying customers on the table is the kind of anti-market thinking that leads to situations like this.

If you incentivize "anti-social behavior" (this seemed like a reasonable middle ground word), what else does anyone expect to happen?

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#58
post #51

Meanwhile, the same California government is trying to legalize discriminatory race-based admissions.

re-leaglize. It was legal until the 90s. When it became illegal, the diversity on campus dropped significantly. There is an argument to be made that the race-based admissions help make up for prior injustices.

I think you also have to determine the purpose of a university.

It's either to take the top students, bar none, or it is to educate and uplift poorer students (economically and educationally). Mixing these two doesn't work.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#59
That sucks. As a (recent) alumnus I was always proud of the fact that no one at my school was a legacy admit or bought their way in.

Both of my parents went to Cal, which at an Ivy might guarantee admission but in my case didn't affect my chances at all (which is a good thing!). I hope this doesn't taint the school's reputation too much.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#60
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colleges rarely if ever fail students. There’s a known phenomenon of grade curving (adding +x% to exams if it was difficult for some students) which I never understood during my time in higher education. Yet it makes sense because universities want to lessen liabilities and have rich alum give back (esp. the case with the children of wealthy donors).

I went to Berkeley and this wasn’t true for Berkeley. Popular majors were very competitive and were designed to filter students out of majors. Many classes were based on a curve such that effectively 1/3 of people ended up at least leaving the major. Sample popular majors: computer science, chemical engineering, molecular cell biology. I knew of at least one person who effectively failed out after one semester and of…

Same experience at my UC. Popular/impacted major courses aren't even allowed to curve up (only down). The universities will defend the reputation of their top majors by aggressively filtering out people not meeting the bar. It's not unheard of for a majority of a class to be given non-passing marks, and it's in their financial interest to do so since the student will have to retake the class, thus pay more in tuition. They'd just rather you waste your time and money in an non-impacted major (and so it doesn't impact their graduation rate stat used for major rankings).

Definitely have my share of friends that did 6-8 year stints at the UC for a 4-year degree from constantly failing out of classes, but never forced out.

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