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DOS Subsystem for Linux

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Re: DOS Subsystem for Linux

#111
post #27

There are a ton of comments here that seem to be misunderstanding what this software is. This creates a WSL-like environment on a DOS host system. It does not create a DOS environment on a Linux host. I'm not sure where this misunderstanding even comes from; the name is perfectly analogous to WSL.

Wuts WSL?

Re: DOS Subsystem for Linux

#113
post #74
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows -> Dosbox -> DSL -> Wine?

We have to go deeper.

There was a video where someone was running a firefox browser inside another browser using wasm. It was presented as a wacky "future history" talk... I can't find it in my watch history

Re: DOS Subsystem for Linux

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're both phrased unnaturally, IMO. The suffix "for Linux" strongly implies it's software for use on Linux. It's like the "4j" and "4win" suffixes, implying software built for the Java and Windows environments, respectively. What's more, Windows or DOS as an adjective of subsystem bind more tightly than "for Linux". So if you were to start dropping parts of the name, you'd drop "for Linux" first. Except you can't,…

They're both phrased unnaturally, IMO. This is why we teach sentence diagramming in elementary school. Maybe the person who came up with "WSL" wasn't a native English-speaker?

It follows the same naming convention as SFU (Windows Subsystem for Unix) [1] which was equally confusing.

My belief (!!), back then, was that it was intentionally named confusing. Back when it came around, Microsoft was under scrutiny for monopoly behavior. They didn't want Windows to be compatible with Unix in any way; they wanted the world to run Windows (9x, NT) only. That was my belief/theory, as it is now I don't have anything to back it up as it is though. Your theory might equally be viable.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX

Re: DOS Subsystem for Linux

#115
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine it's because WSL is a terribly confusing name itself for a lot of people. There are two ways to read "Windows Subsystem for Linux": 1. This is a subsystem that runs on Windows that enables Linux binaries. 2. This is a subsystem that runs on Linux that enables Windows binaries. The confusion comes in the fact that when I write those two sentences, I naturally want to write "This is a subsystem FOR Wind…

Why not use "in"/"on"? Linux Subsystem on Windows Linux Subsystem in Windows

I expect Microsoft doesn't want to have "Linux" come first in the name from a branding perspective.

Re: DOS Subsystem for Linux

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're both phrased unnaturally, IMO. The suffix "for Linux" strongly implies it's software for use on Linux. It's like the "4j" and "4win" suffixes, implying software built for the Java and Windows environments, respectively. What's more, Windows or DOS as an adjective of subsystem bind more tightly than "for Linux". So if you were to start dropping parts of the name, you'd drop "for Linux" first. Except you can't,…

They're both phrased unnaturally, IMO. This is why we teach sentence diagramming in elementary school. Maybe the person who came up with "WSL" wasn't a native English-speaker?

I expect it's branding. I'm having trouble coming up with a name that sounds unambiguous while keeping "Windows" as the first word. And I doubt Microsoft's branding people would be happy if "Linux" appeared in the title before "Windows".

Re: DOS Subsystem for Linux

#117
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WSL terminology really only makes sense if you are aware that Windows has the concept of subsystems - and which is why swapping other labels makes even less sense. I.e. the run-Windows-on-Linux thing would probably not be called Linux Subsystem for Windows, because what is a "Linux Subsystem"? And of course WSL2 isn't a subsystem anymore, but is stuck with the product name. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was under the impression that the name arose out of trademark requirements. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14093517

Could they have just called it the Windows Linux Subsystem?

Re: DOS Subsystem for Linux

#118
A couple comments....this is super interesting to me. It boots into Linux from an HDD image. It also requires and uses Unreal Memory Mode [0][1] (vs. Real Mode or Protected Mode). It makes me wonder how compatible & stable this is with other DOS era software.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_mode

[1] https://github.com/charliesome/doslinux/blob/master/doslinux...

Re: DOS Subsystem for Linux

#119
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have to go deeper.

There was a video where someone was running a firefox browser inside another browser using wasm. It was presented as a wacky "future history" talk... I can't find it in my watch history

You're thinking of this:

https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death...

at about 13:10.

Re: DOS Subsystem for Linux

#120
post #35
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this explained somewhere? I'd love to read how it works (without trying to understand the source code).

Author here. I am planning to do an in depth write up of how this works, but it seems Hacker News found it sooner :) When DSL is first invoked at the command line it boots up the Linux kernel which takes over control of the computer from DOS. Now here’s the trick: DSL makes use of a processor feature called VM8086 which allows for a 32 bit operating system to run legacy 16 bit code mostly natively. This feature is ho…

I look forward to your writeup, but in the meantime, thank you for your comment explaining how this works. Excellent hack!
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