UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors • Hacker News Board

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#21

Post by asciident » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:31 PM UTC

adaisadais wrote: post #12

Upon close examination I think we would find the ALL schools do this. This is just a symptom of the underlying problem with our education system in the US. It’s no longer about educating but about $. When the almighty dolla gets in the way judgment is clouded. Come to think of it... maybe this happens in politics and medicine too? ;)

I would be careful about following this line of thinking too much. Like a few politicians are corrupt, they're all corrupt. It's no longer useful to vote. Or some Hacker News commenters made up stuff on the spot. So all Hacker News comments are garbage. It dismisses the vast majority of people who are doing the right thing.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#22

Post by andreilys » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

nirajd wrote: post #3

Not surprising at all; however, I am curious how someone who didn't meet the admissions criteria is able to graduate CAL with a passing GPA...

Colleges rarely if ever fail students. There’s a known phenomenon of grade curving (adding +x% to exams if it was difficult for some students) which I never understood during my time in higher education.

Yet it makes sense because universities want to lessen liabilities and have rich alum give back (esp. the case with the children of wealthy donors).

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#23

Post by worstestes » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

joncp wrote: post #19

q3k wrote: post #15

I thought this was common practice in US universities, in the form of so called 'legacy admissions' [1]? [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

Since Berkeley is public, there's an expectation of more fairness. ... I'm more surprised it was only 64 kids.

That's only counting those who were caught

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#24

Post by WillPostForFood » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

q3k wrote: post #15

I thought this was common practice in US universities, in the form of so called 'legacy admissions' [1]? [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

You can get a legacy preference (child or relative of a graduate) without being a donor, though both often come into play.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#25

Post by MiroF » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

q3k wrote: post #15

I thought this was common practice in US universities, in the form of so called 'legacy admissions' [1]? [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

I don't think public institutions like Cal engage in legacy admissions, but I'm not sure?

Many schools give a general boost for legacy, but it is not always so tit-for-tat as the transactions that occurred here with Cal. They'll often have a different non-legacy pipeline for large donor -> admission.

For instance, at Harvard, there is the legacy SCEA process, but there is also the "z-list" process which is the more direct "children of billionaires" route.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#26

Post by currymj » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

nirajd wrote: post #3

Not surprising at all; however, I am curious how someone who didn't meet the admissions criteria is able to graduate CAL with a passing GPA...

i guarantee you there are a number of people every year who get rejected from Berkeley but accepted to Stanford (or equivalent) -- just a lot of noise in the process and after a certain point it becomes pretty arbitrary.

i bet this fact is how the admissions officials rationalized this corruption -- if the line between acceptance and rejection is arbitrary anyway, how much worse could it be to try to get some money out of it? (a lot worse)

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#27

Post by suprfsat » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

asciident wrote: post #21

adaisadais wrote: post #12

Upon close examination I think we would find the ALL schools do this. This is just a symptom of the underlying problem with our education system in the US. It’s no longer about educating but about $. When the almighty dolla gets in the way judgment is clouded. Come to think of it... maybe this happens in politics and medicine too? ;)

I would be careful about following this line of thinking too much. Like a few politicians are corrupt, they're all corrupt. It's no longer useful to vote. Or some Hacker News commenters made up stuff on the spot. So all Hacker News comments are garbage. It dismisses the vast majority of people who are doing the right thing.

>all Hacker News comments are garbage

this isn't a controversial opinion

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#28

Post by wegs » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

adaisadais wrote: post #12

Upon close examination I think we would find the ALL schools do this. This is just a symptom of the underlying problem with our education system in the US. It’s no longer about educating but about $. When the almighty dolla gets in the way judgment is clouded. Come to think of it... maybe this happens in politics and medicine too? ;)

All schools do NOT do this. I went to MIT:

* MIT wouldn't be caught dead with JUST 64 students admitted on the basis of connections and donations.

* MIT wouldn't be caught dead letting external auditors look at this stuff.

* MIT wouldn't be caught. None of this would be public for MIT. That's what NDAs and non-disparage agreements are for.

I'm sorry, but all schools don't do this. Most are smart enough to stay out of this kind of trouble. For Harvard, it took a lawsuit and subpoenas to get in trouble over this.

Having external auditors, standards, and accountability is probably completely unique to UC/Berkeley. Admitting just 64 applicants based on graft and corruption is also unique within the top-20 schools.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#29

Post by leafmeal » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

From a utilitarian point of view, I'm wondering if this could actually be beneficial. The extra revenue from donations could sponsor students with less income.

I suppose the real problem is that UCs are no longer financed fully by the state. If they were, there would be no excuse for this.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#30

Post by pvg » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

q3k wrote: post #15

I thought this was common practice in US universities, in the form of so called 'legacy admissions' [1]? [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

No, legacy admissions are at least to some extent rule based, rather than outright cheating which what this stuff is - people don't go to jail over legacy admissions, for instance. UC Berkeley doesn't have legacy admissions to begin with.