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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#272
This is only indirectly related to the article at hand, but it effectively is an example of a 'caste' system in the United States.

I was born and raised in California, and ended up living in Arkansas, where I met my wife to be, who had been born and raised in Georgia (the state), near the border of Alabama.

My wife had always been somewhat of an outsider from her family, with the exception of her father. They were very close.

When we decided to marry, she asked me to meet her family, so we drove to Columbus and stayed for a week.

I met her father and liked him immediately. He had a thick west Georgia accent, and had a blue collar job (telephone line repair man) for decades.

My wife to be told me in private that her father didn't know what to make of me. In his old school southern mind, the clearest divide was between the races, and between north and south. We were white, so that wasn't an obstacle, but I'm from the 'far' west, so he didn't instinctively know what 'box' I belonged in.

She suggested that I ask him if we could go out and shoot on his out of town hunting property, which I did. He was delighted but wary.

So the next day he loaded up his guns and drove us out to his 34 acre hunting lot some miles out of town.

He had confided in my wife to be earlier: "I don't know if this city boy knows how to shoot. I don't know if he'll be safe."

Unbeknownst to him, while I had grown up in the city with my grandparents, my grandfather owned a lot in the desert outside of Los Angeles, and we'd taken HIS arsenal out there many times to go shooting.

Back on the rural lot in Georgia, he handed me a .308 Winchester bolt action and one round, and asked me to shoot a sapling about 100 feet away, while pulling himself and his daughter to stand behind me. I loaded the rifle, aimed and shot that little tree down. He asked me to do it again, and I did.

He leaned into his daughter and said, "Ok Michelle I think this boy is all right."

While he and his family had been friendly to me before, after that moment, I was treated like family.

Apparently at least some people from far off California know how to shoot.

Years after the wedding, I asked him about that day, and he was embarrassed. I told him not to be, that it was fine.

He said that he didn't know any other way.

In most every way I could determine, Mr. Shaw was a good, kind and honest man, but he grew up and continued to hold views that many, including his daughter and son in law, found repugnant. But he had learned to keep them to himself, and when he died, those views died with him, and were not passed on to his daughter, nor his grandson.

I'm taking a risk saying this, but here it goes: these things take time to change. Before a hundred years ago, for the most part, I believe the 'rules of society' only changed very slowly, over generations, and when such changes happened quickly for whatever reason, the results were almost always terrible and bloody.

Our civilization is learning how to change more quickly, and we definitely need to focus on figuring out how to be even more flexible, all with sensitivity and sensibility.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#273
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fairly terrible take for a number of reasons, but let's assume good faith and indulge this. * What makes you think that, at any point, lower caste people had an on-average lower IQ? The same has been said for plenty of minorities that have been historically discriminated against, such as people of color and women, because opressors are in control of the narrative and see themselves as superior * What does "…

I assure you I am in good faith, I understand the topic is sensitive, but I don't know what in my comment would suggest I am in bad faith. I think it is likely that there are differences in IQ between the castes, just as there are other physical differences, and that the higher caste would have on average higher IQ since IQ is a decent predictor of social economic success in most contexts. Perhaps people familiar wit…

50-100 years ago there were huge differences between men and women's test scores, and many speculated that it was due to genetic differences. Fast forward to today where women get equivalent education (at least here in the UK), and those differences have disappeared with women actually doing slightly better than men on average. There's a very high chance that it's not genetic.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#274
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I think US people see caste system as something like skin color based racism in west. Actually it is much more complicated than that. I know people from upper castes who were actually middle class farmers, and those from lower castes that got benefit from quotas even if they were rich[0]. Affirmative action is always bad. Because the people getting benefit of it are likely to be privileged. In this particular l…

> "Affirmative action is always bad. Because the people getting benefit of it are likely to be privileged." But this is not what affirmative action is. The purpose of affirmative action is to help under-privileged people. If the help is going to privileged people instead, it's not affirmative action, it's corruption. If it's really true, as you suggest, that some Dalit are rich and some Brahmin are poor, that some Da…

> If the help is going to privileged people instead, it's not affirmative action

While I might agree about this being a bad outcome, I also don't think a "no true Scotsman" argument is helpful. What is described here is still affirmative action - just a bad implementation of it. Instead of trying to define them away, we should admit that such bad implementations can exist, and push for good implementations instead.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#275
post #190
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've experienced some of my Indian coworkers criticize BLM, which was a bit surprising. I don't know what caste they belong to, though.

It's surprising to you because North Americans have gotten used to saying "people of color" as if they were all united. Upper-caste Indians basically see themselves as people on top of the racial hierarchy. In many ways they identify far more strongly with British or American elites than with Dalits.

An amazingly astute trick by the British.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and what came of the report to her employer? Can't imagine any moral company tolerating this

”...actions are underway” https://www.theweek.in/news/biz-tech/2020/09/11/ntt-data-tak...

Thanks

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please reference the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Accusing someone of lying violates several of them.

But it IS a blatant lie. If the OP can provide any evidence of a student's caste listed on a notice board in a college, I'll eat my hat.

“I’m very skeptical of this, other than . Do you have any citations for this in any other context?”

That would be an interesting discussion I’d like to see, but you derailed it immediately through accusations of bad faith.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I think US people see caste system as something like skin color based racism in west. Actually it is much more complicated than that. I know people from upper castes who were actually middle class farmers, and those from lower castes that got benefit from quotas even if they were rich[0]. Affirmative action is always bad. Because the people getting benefit of it are likely to be privileged. In this particular l…

> Affirmative action is always bad. I disagree. I grew up poor and white, I was the "victim" of AA once, I come from exactly the demographic that racist demagogues play to, and I still disagree. Just as the original systemic discrimination has uneven effect (on both sides), so does AA. The beneficiaries of AA as it has existed in the US are not particularly likely to be privileged. In fact it really is a bit of the o…

Its a good thing you didn't grow up poor and asian - then you would have had to work even harder with even less privelege

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#280

> My college fucking put the caste next to people's names on notice boards for things like seating arrangements for an exam. You are lying. The colleges never do that, once the admissions are done. Yes, during entrance exams and results, they list the "quota" under which the student is seeking admission. If you don't want to have Scheduled Caste listed against your name, don't seek admission under SC quota.

Please reference the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Accusing someone of lying violates several of them.

But original comment is a lie. There are thousands of castes all over the country - different in every state. So education boards create categories (named 1,2A,2R etc.) Each such category is an umbrella for x number of castes. And perhaps this category is indicated next to students' name and not the caste itself.
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