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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#181

Post by TuringNYC »

buran77 wrote: post #111
mcv wrote: post #103

My dad recently told me how during the 1980s they had two Indians working together on a project. Turns out one of them was upper-caste, and the other lower-caste, and the upper-caste basically refused. Was impossible to work with, because he was offended that he had to work with a lower-caste person. If this attitude discrimination of Dalits by upper-castes is really so common in non-Indian companies, it sounds like…

I saw the situation a bit differently, the upper caste guys would have no problem working with the lower caste ones simply because this meant they never had to work. They would pawn off all the work on the others and order them around. And if I tried to force any work on them it just backfired since they just shoved it down the throats of their "slaves". Even trying to embarrass them in a meeting didn't work. With al…

As a New Analyst, I've seen this with Westerners also (nothing to do with "caste" in the specific sense), trying to boss around others and assert dominance based on their University or assumed better training.

I think it happens in a lot of circumstances, even if there isnt a name for it in the West.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#182

Post by frenchy »

_jgdh wrote: post #140
notacoward wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you say rings very true to me. Most Indians are very reluctant to talk about this. Of several that became friends when I worked with a team in BLR, only one became close enough that we could discuss it. He himself was from one of the very highest sub-castes (which he taught me was trivially knowable from his surname) but very enlightened. I was shocked to discover that all but two or three out of about fif…

I've never had any trouble discussing this with European and American colleagues or owning up to my own privilege. But I can see how many Indians would find it awkward to talk about, especially if they think that the caste system is on it's way out because things are better than they used to be. Some might feel that discussing it with non-Indians puts India in a bad light. To which I say, it's not me who's painting I…

I think it's very natural to find this topic awkward if you come from a privilaged background.

Basically, you've grown up being treated in a certain way, and you internalize that and think you're a valuable person because people treat you well. Then you realize that at least part of that is because society is broken/diseased and not simply because you're inheritly awesome. That's a really awkward pill to swallow.

I'm not in any way trying to justify this behavior. Something being natural doesn't mean it's good.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#183

Post by ponker »

jacquesm wrote: post #70
ponker wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

President Obama formalized the 2 month window.

Let's not give anybody ideas for some destructive action now because there is a name attached to this.

Good point, USCIS formalized the two month window in 2016.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#184

Post by _hhkc »

_jgdh wrote: post #80

For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…

I've experienced some of my Indian coworkers criticize BLM, which was a bit surprising. I don't know what caste they belong to, though.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#185

Post by rsynnott »

torb-xyz wrote: post #56
LatteLazy wrote: post #19

The core issue in market heavy economies is that people with money make money and everyone else doesn't. Being smart and hard working and having poor parents means you will be poor. Being dumb and lazy with rich parents means you will be rich. Maybe with 3 or 4 full generations of nothing but hard work and luck you might make it up from working to middle class. Maybe. This is never really discussed directly. Only usi…

It's frequently brought up in radical leftist discourse* (marxism, anarchism, etc…) or even center-left discourse (social democracy, social liberalism, etc…). AFAICT it seems to be taboo outside these circles. * I should mention that many people make big point that you shouldn't use economic points like this to ignore things like racism, i.e.: while racism intersects with economics you can't treat it like it's the sa…

If you mean the stickiness of the upper-middle-class, then it's a fairly well-known phenomenon, and I don't think it's _taboo_ anywhere. Maybe some upper-middle-class people with upper-middle-class parents might take vague offense (on the basis that they believe they got where they are purely through hard work or whatever) but I can't imagine anyone thinking of it as taboo.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#186

Post by zarkov99 »

_jgdh wrote: post #80

For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…

Do you think its pure caste discrimination though? Is it not possible, even likely, that generations of segregated reproduction have selected for higher IQ in the higher castes? I understand how awful this is to contemplate, but isn't it ignoring that effect also burying your head in the sand?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#188

Post by dharmach »

This is more of a USA problem where people working under H1B visa are somehow dependent to their employer/manager and vulnerable to exploitation/discrimination (if the employer/manager happens to be a casteist Indian). In Canada (for example), I can flaunt my low caste without such fear.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#189

Post by covfefeblack »

_jgdh wrote: post #80

For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…

Sunder-whats-his-name is decidedly a shithead.. But why there happen to be higher numbers of 'upper-caste' Indians in the US is decidedly complicated: India has a really complicated system of reservations (aka affirmative action) - so that if you happen to not be economically/caste/class disadvantaged (or don't have the papers to prove it) you literally are competing with the majority of indian students for https://collegedunia.com/exams/jee-advanced/reservation) to the point where these admissions spots India's (and the world's) most competitive schools go empty for want of appropriate candidates. The politics of reservation aside - a lot of folks from 'higher' castes - unable to make it into that 10% end up trying education in the US or elsewhere to get away from this paucity of opportunity (while they do have to be economically privileged to do so - I don't know anyone who did it without taking loans)

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#190

Post by neilk »

_hhkc wrote: post #184
_jgdh wrote: post #80

For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…

I've experienced some of my Indian coworkers criticize BLM, which was a bit surprising. I don't know what caste they belong to, though.

It's surprising to you because North Americans have gotten used to saying "people of color" as if they were all united.

Upper-caste Indians basically see themselves as people on top of the racial hierarchy. In many ways they identify far more strongly with British or American elites than with Dalits.

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