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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#171

Post by hinkley »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #96
cgh wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The house behind ours in our little community was an AirBnB rental and it was a constant source of issues. Like you said, these weren't lower-income people causing these issues, but young professionals here for outdoor recreation (skiing, mountain biking, etc). There was zero regard for the families living all around them and eventually the town passed a bylaw to deal with short-term rentals. Long story short, everyo…

Tourism economy comes with tourist problems.

I recall one summer probably freshman year in college, we went to the Wisconsin Dells. I was busy flirting with ideas about how I would start my life, so certain topics were on my mind that hadn't thought too hard about before or since.

This whole town is tourism. I wonder what it must be like to live here? I felt vaguely uncomfortable the entire time, until I felt really uncomfortable, in ways that only an angsty 19 year old can manage.

I still have this vignette in my head of this moment in a convenience store. It was one of those counters where the register goes to the depth of the counter, so I'm standing basically face to face with the clerk while my parents are paying to my left. She's about my age, and I'm wondering, is this really what she wants to be doing? Or is this all there is, here? She could be teaching a class or training to be a gardener but she's selling M&Ms to a bunch of self-absorbed tourists who don't even see her, and are just here for the day and will be gone tomorrow. It must suck to date around here, too.

The ride on the Ducks through a bit of nature was by far the high point.

(That is also the only time I've ever witnessed a golden retriever be anything but adorable - threatened to bite me for an abortive attempt at a head pat. Man, fuck the Dells.)

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#172

Post by kmonsen »

vertis wrote: post #49
joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

I think this is of course fine, and if you stay for months there should be few issues you are introducing for other people in the buildings etc.

The problem is that airbnb is not sustainable with just these "guests" (I mean is it sustainable at all?). So you are not paying the real price for this service, but are subsidized by they guests that are not wanted.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#173

Post by UglyToad »

RestlessMind wrote: post #134
closeparen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seemed pretty reasonable; they wanted a quiet neighborhood where their kids could play This is certainly a valuable thing, I can see why people want it and I support it being available to them. But why are these the only people who seem reasonable? This land use is just as disruptive to the enjoyment of others as "a vibrant city with street life and parties." Why is this preference so privileged over all the others…

Like most things in life, this may boil down to who came first and who holds most of the power? If someone lands in a suburbia and wants to convert it into a dense metropolis because he wants to enjoy city life, existing residents have enough power (and moral high ground) to ask him to fuck off to Manhattan. By the same rule, if someone were to go to Manhattan and wanted a peaceful life with lots of open space, he sh…

This is somewhat formalised in the UK with the agent of change principle, basically you can't just rezone and complain about the nature of the neighbourhood https://www.citymetric.com/business/uk-planning-system-final...

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#174

Post by Nextgrid »

skullx wrote: post #66
vertis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

I'm pretty sure there is a lot of options other than Hotels that would cover your needs, that existed long before Airbnb. Just to name a few you can stay in aparthotels , a common thing in almost every country, or you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner, instead of doing it through Airbnb. IMO Airbnb does more bad than good and transform centric areas of big cities in amusement park for the tour…

> just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner

In a lot of countries the rental market is broken and prevents this. I've had this issue in the UK when I needed to move to London on very short notice after getting a job offer (and didn't have enough money saved up to afford a month's worth of hotel until I sort things out).

I had enough money to pay a deposit and a couple months worth of rent, so all of that paid upfront plus the employment contract should be enough to make most landlords happy.

The problem? The rental market around here seems monopolized by agencies and they all had referencing/application fees which means that even if I agree to pay the fee and take the risk of losing the fee if I get rejected I still wouldn't be able to get the flat quickly (my objective was to pay 2 months + deposit upfront and get the keys the same day). If I wanted to mitigate the risk of being rejected it would mean I need to apply to multiple properties at once, paying them a referencing fee to each (which I guess I'd lose if I back out even if I end up accepted).

Airbnb took my money no questions asked and I had a place to sleep on the same day. I'm still in that place 3 years later (paying direct now obviously)! I hate Airbnb for other reasons, but there definitely is a need for a better short-term rental system.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#175

Post by dang »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #46

off topic: please developers stop hijacking the back button for no reason. It's extremely hostile behaviour and you are getting nothing out of it but contempt from the user. Why does the BBC website needs to do that exactly?

"Please don't complain about website formatting, back-button breakage, and similar annoyances. They're too common to be interesting. Exception: when the author is present. Then friendly feedback might be helpful."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#176

Post by bwb »

novok wrote: post #165
bwb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said, I am similar. Ive traveled and lived in airbnbs for a total of 3 years, ive always tried to be a good neighbor. I despise hotels and love what airbnb built. I hope they can figure out a middle ground to make this work.

As an experienced AirBNB customer, what do you do when a unit goes bad and your out in the street? Do you just eat the extra high cost of booking the same night somewhere else?

I've never had something go that bad.

I had one experience where we walked away the next day and opened a support ticket due to misrepresentation and a landlord who was mentally unwell and scary. AirBNB dragged their feet a little but did refund us fully within 24 hours. In that case I just booked something new and it was all good.

I've never had someone cancel on me on AirBNB.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#177

Post by lotsofpulp »

hinkley wrote: post #171
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourism economy comes with tourist problems.

I recall one summer probably freshman year in college, we went to the Wisconsin Dells. I was busy flirting with ideas about how I would start my life, so certain topics were on my mind that hadn't thought too hard about before or since. This whole town is tourism. I wonder what it must be like to live here? I felt vaguely uncomfortable the entire time, until I felt really uncomfortable, in ways that only an angsty 19…

>She's about my age, and I'm wondering, is this really what she wants to be doing? Or is this all there is, here?

This applies to probably 90% of the people in the world. The whole follow your passions thing is an upper middle class developed world thing.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#178

Post by TrackerFF »

em-bee wrote: post #148
gherkinnn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible). Nah, mate. Nomads living like locals is an oxymoron. It doesn’t come close. I wish Airbnb-ers would stop touting this. You haven’t seen restaurants come and go. You don’t know the intricacies of local culture and etiquette. If you do speak the language, you don’t speak the lingo. You have never fought with t…

this sounds like the kind of attitude that makes it hard for any newcomer to settle in a different city or country. how many years does it take before my family is accepted as a local and not treated like an outsider? how long does it take to grow new roots? the reality is for many that point is never reached. in some places, if you are not born there you are not accepted as a local. i am not talking about digital no…

> how many years does it take before my family is accepted as a local and not treated like an outsider? how long does it take to grow new roots?

When you start paying taxes and contributing/engaging to the area (working, consuming, giving)

This, quite obviously, varies a lot from place to place - but IMO, if you fill the above points, you're as good as natives. But I think the biggest divider between insiders and outsiders is engagement - if you start engaging in the community, that's the fast-track to getting accepted.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#179

Post by vertis »

kmonsen wrote: post #172
vertis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

I think this is of course fine, and if you stay for months there should be few issues you are introducing for other people in the buildings etc. The problem is that airbnb is not sustainable with just these "guests" (I mean is it sustainable at all?). So you are not paying the real price for this service, but are subsidized by they guests that are not wanted.

I suspect we pay a higher price because of the competition for short term rentals in much the same way that it has an impact on rental and for-sale markets.

Assuming it was still possible, without AirBnB we would likely be paying private rental rates on Craigslist/Gumtree.

Both Christmas' and NYE so far we have not stayed in AirBnBs because we get priced out of the market (we have ended up house sitting instead)

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#180

Post by andi999 »

llsf wrote: post #118
joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

And Paris is one of the most touristic place on earth, so the pressure to convert long-term rentals in short-term rentals is extreme. Paris has been testing that detrimental effect for several years now. It is so lucrative that an economy on top of AirBnB, flourished. I do not know what is the right answer, but for a city like Paris, hotels are probably the most efficient way to deal with the flow of tourists. Maybe…

I think the problem in Paris is not near the problem in barcelona
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