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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#161

Post by vertis »

gherkinnn wrote: post #95
vertis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

> But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible). Nah, mate. Nomads living like locals is an oxymoron. It doesn’t come close. I wish Airbnb-ers would stop touting this. You haven’t seen restaurants come and go. You don’t know the intricacies of local culture and etiquette. If you do speak the language, you don’t speak the lingo. You have never fought with t…

There is truth to the fact that I can't stay everywhere and experience everything, but I have a deeper understanding of the different ways the people live and the different things that communities value than I could ever have dreamed before I left.

It's also true that I can't have the depth of experience that comes with living in a place for years (or your whole life).

I wasn't exactly sheltered before becoming a nomad, but there is a difference in the experience. You do come to understand in at least a small part the differences between even countries/cities that are a few hundred kilometers apart.

I have found myself revisiting places, and finding places that I like the most within a city. Being sad when I leave Sweden because MAX burgers doesn't really exist outside the Nordic countries.

I am slowly learning another language, though that is a long term project. Ich spreche jetzt ein bisschen deutsch

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#163

Post by bilbo0s »

soperj wrote: post #104
stingraycharles wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type is of stuff is why cities have zoning, and I feel like all this Airbnb discussion is just people realizing why things were like they were. As a tourist who occasionally used Airbnb myself, of course I enjoy it but it’s not like I couldn’t enjoy a hotel. I completely understand why it’s bad for communities. There must be some middle ground to be reached here, but when in doubt, I would err on the side of com…

I guess as a tourist with a family, it's completely different. Hotels suck for small kids. Having a room with a door that can close, and a space outside is such a massively different experience than a hotel room.

Maybe I'm privileged? I don't want to sound tone deaf if I am, but hotels have always been fine for my family on short trips. Kids and all. It's not that long, for me a max of a few days. Typically, even for other families max would be maybe 2 or 3 weeks. Normally much shorter than that. I don't think having to use hotels for short term stays is all that inconvenient.

I confess to using apartments for long term rentals. The last time we were in Paris, I took an apartment for the 3 months of the summer through a service that's something like airbnb. That was better for the kids. But that's also longer term stuff.

Hotels are honestly not all that terrible for short term family stays. If you have to go somewhere in France long term, airbnb would likely still be available to you.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#164

Post by RandallBrown »

ptero wrote: post #40
MereInterest wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The apartment complex I'm in rents out some apartments on AirBnB, including the one directly above me. The direct impact is only that it gets vacuumed far more often than a normal tenant would (between each AirBnB usage, about twice a week), increasing the noise. The indirect impact is that I do not have an opportunity to say hello to neighbors, ask how they are doing, send excess baked goods, etc. If a long…

Most short term rentals in apartment complexes are actually against the rental contract of the building. Thus you probably have a very strong hand when you deal with a noisy host. I would still be nice to stay friends with a neighbor, but if vacuuming bothers you and you ask the host to limit vacuuming to certain hours of the day he will likely jump to do your bidding. My 2c.

With lots of newer buildings they have apartments specifically dedicated to AirBNBs. They're managed by the apartment complex.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#165

Post by novok »

bwb wrote: post #67
vertis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

Well said, I am similar. Ive traveled and lived in airbnbs for a total of 3 years, ive always tried to be a good neighbor. I despise hotels and love what airbnb built. I hope they can figure out a middle ground to make this work.

As an experienced AirBNB customer, what do you do when a unit goes bad and your out in the street? Do you just eat the extra high cost of booking the same night somewhere else?

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#166

Post by jdeibele »

As a family of two adults and 3 children we've very much appreciated being able to stay in places where we can cook for ourselves, be able to do laundry, and have space to spread out a bit.

In the US, there are chains like Embassy Suites that work well for families because they have two bedrooms separated by a living/cooking area. The fact that they're typically far outside downtown matters a lot less because we've rented a car.

In Europe, we usually didn't want to rent a car. Having 5 people was a problem with hotels because their typical limit was 4 people to a room. So being able to rent an apartment or house near downtown was wonderful.

If you don't have kids, there's nothing quite like watching your 3 kids refuse to eat the $15/each meal that you ordered. Repeatedly. And have to resort to crackers or chips from a convenience store.

It's going to be interesting to see what the outcome of the pandemic will be. We stayed on a house on a canal in Amsterdam and it was amazing. But you can see why the locals would want that house available to themselves.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#167

Post by titanomachy »

gridlockd wrote: post #151
stingraycharles wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type is of stuff is why cities have zoning, and I feel like all this Airbnb discussion is just people realizing why things were like they were. As a tourist who occasionally used Airbnb myself, of course I enjoy it but it’s not like I couldn’t enjoy a hotel. I completely understand why it’s bad for communities. There must be some middle ground to be reached here, but when in doubt, I would err on the side of com…

I think this talk of "community" is a bunch of hogwash. People living in cities don't have communities, they barely know each other. What they are really protesting is being unable to afford rising rent, which is caused by a lack of apartments, which is somewhat exacerbated by Airbnb, but zoning laws have a far bigger impact. The same people who can't afford the rent anymore wouldn't want to live in (or next to) a hi…

This is pretty true for very high-density buildings in North American cities. It might be less true in lower-density areas in North America, and the rest of the world in general.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#168

Post by MrPowers »

em-bee wrote: post #148
gherkinnn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible). Nah, mate. Nomads living like locals is an oxymoron. It doesn’t come close. I wish Airbnb-ers would stop touting this. You haven’t seen restaurants come and go. You don’t know the intricacies of local culture and etiquette. If you do speak the language, you don’t speak the lingo. You have never fought with t…

this sounds like the kind of attitude that makes it hard for any newcomer to settle in a different city or country. how many years does it take before my family is accepted as a local and not treated like an outsider? how long does it take to grow new roots? the reality is for many that point is never reached. in some places, if you are not born there you are not accepted as a local. i am not talking about digital no…

I'd say you need to be in a new place for 3+ years to stop being treated as an outsider, assuming you learn the language, get local friends, and adopt the culture in the meantime.

If you can't speak the language and use local expressions, then you'll always be an outsider.

Source: moved to Colombia 5 years ago and took me 3 years to have people say "tu si eres bien Paisa" and "usted es mas Paisa que una arepa". Have seen a small minority of other foreigners get accepted. Most never learn the language / culture enough and will always be outsiders.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#169

Post by maxlamb »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #84
aborsy wrote: post #15

Rents in Paris approach Bay Area level, see per m2 rent or real state prices in common rental sites: www.pap.fr https://www.seloger.com/ Government regulations protecting small group of people and vested interests at costs to most other residents have contributed to this. The government is omnipresent. It restricts the supply through various mechanisms among which are these regulations, and subsidizes the demand. The…

What does your comment have to do with companies listing illegal short stay rents? Nothing. Rent is going up in every big city on the planet. It has nothing to do with any government policy, much more to do with ultra rich people and other funds using real-estate as a safe "investment", because they are well aware that the stock market valuations are mostly bullshit propped up by fake money.

but the thing is government policy CAN make a difference for just the situation you described, like increasing property taxes on investment properties. Berlin is an example where government has mostly successfully kept rents stable, or a least a lot more stable that most other cities.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-19/berlin-se...

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#170

Post by vertis »

novok wrote: post #165
bwb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said, I am similar. Ive traveled and lived in airbnbs for a total of 3 years, ive always tried to be a good neighbor. I despise hotels and love what airbnb built. I hope they can figure out a middle ground to make this work.

As an experienced AirBNB customer, what do you do when a unit goes bad and your out in the street? Do you just eat the extra high cost of booking the same night somewhere else?

I don't think I've had one go bad so as to not have a bed for the night. Having one go bad 2 days before you arrive and having to rebook, or having one that is really bad that you just can't stay at any longer (and then yes, you eat the high cost).

Doesn't happen too often though.

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