China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet • Hacker News Board

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#261

Post by smithza » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

platinumrad wrote: post #223

smithza wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. We cannot place our hopes in capitalism to deal with these human-rights atrocities, even though there is much the NBA could do to use their financial power to influence the region and demand change. MLK would use boycotts to force racist busi…

It's hypocritical to focus on issues in your own country?

The BLM movement is important; I have no interest in distracting from this problem. Lebron was explicitly asked about the CCP and their human-rights abuses after an NBA manager unpopularly criticized the CCP. The NBA would rather not talk about the CCP and the manager was effectively shamed for doing so. Capitalism cannot look past the $$$. China makes up 10% of NBA revenue [1]

[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nba-needs-china-revenue-growt...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#262

Post by bobbyz » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #219

chillacy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading an account from the Roman Empire about parents begrudgingly using the imperial language while their kids grew up completely “Roman”. Then I reflected that if you go back far enough we all have a great^N parent who was in this situation. Someone else in their reply mentioned Hawaii and the US but even Hawaii was unified by force by King Kamehameha. I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re…

"I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re all the conquerors and the conquered." We all have to accept the past. We don't need to accept that the future will be the same. There are many ways that different areas and cultures can share an assimilate. Trade, travel, multilingualism, federations, mutually-agreed democratic annexation, shared constitutions, diplomacy, immigration, intermarriage, etc. Coer…

Just another way for criminals to excuse themselves of their crimes. Imagine if you said this to a black person in the context of slavery

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#263

Post by SkyMarshal » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

crocodiletears wrote: post #203

foepys wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear it already is too late. China was brave enough to take Hong Kong in one swift motion. The international response has been so weak that China is already eyeing Taiwan. Just yesterday they flew with 18 fighter jets and a bomber across the unofficial but mutually agreed border between Taiwan and China. This is unprecedented. If the situation doesn't deescalate quickly, we might see a war soon and if push comes to…

The US could just extract a few key TSMC engineers, turn its facilities into a crater, and back out. I don't think anyone wants to start WWIII with China over an exiled Chinese government living on an island that's less than 200 miles from the Chinese mainland other than an occupied Taiwanese people. I'm not even certain that the US could land a force in the area, given China's investment in defensive missile install…

The US may not need to land a force there, just ensure that China can't. Make sure Taiwan has enough missiles, subs, mines, etc to repel any PLA landing force, making it prohibitively expensive and embarrassing for China to attempt.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#264

Post by twobuy » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

madenine wrote: post #243

smithza wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. We cannot place our hopes in capitalism to deal with these human-rights atrocities, even though there is much the NBA could do to use their financial power to influence the region and demand change. MLK would use boycotts to force racist busi…

> Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. I don't understand this take. Why does LeBron James have to address human rights in China before he, a Black American, can address human rights abuses against Black Americans in America?

You're right that he shouldn't feel the same obligation to speak out in defense of Tibet. But the issue with James is his history of comments that support the PRC's regime in Uyghur land. He isn't neutral on the issue of China. See: his comments during the Houston fiasco.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#265

Post by chillacy » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #219

chillacy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading an account from the Roman Empire about parents begrudgingly using the imperial language while their kids grew up completely “Roman”. Then I reflected that if you go back far enough we all have a great^N parent who was in this situation. Someone else in their reply mentioned Hawaii and the US but even Hawaii was unified by force by King Kamehameha. I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re…

"I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re all the conquerors and the conquered." We all have to accept the past. We don't need to accept that the future will be the same. There are many ways that different areas and cultures can share an assimilate. Trade, travel, multilingualism, federations, mutually-agreed democratic annexation, shared constitutions, diplomacy, immigration, intermarriage, etc. Coer…

True, I see the future as being coercion through soft power: e.g. people want to come to America because it has attractive political freedom, economic strength, and cultural capital.

In this world, cultures built around immigration end up changing themselves to better compete for people. e.g. the US had to undergo civil rights reforms in the 60s and expand access to all as the USSR looked increasingly attractive to those traditionally left out.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#266

Post by Der_Einzige » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

newen wrote: post #21

Great, yet another China bad article that paints what is probably a jobs and reeducation program to modernize Tibet as something much more sinister. Edit: Reeducation might be something as normal as going from an agricultural society to a modern one. Reeducation sounds very sinister, I'm sure, but Tibet was a feudal society just 60 years ago. Also "reeducation" is entirely my phrasing and has connotations different f…

I wonder what percentage of former HN posters are going to try to become card carrying political officers for the CCP in the future...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#267

Post by stann » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

bouncycastle wrote: post #95

trasz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears it’s mostly the language, interaction with various services and institutions, and skills necessary to get a job.

What language? If they have their own language, wouldn't there be plenty of jobs where they can just use their own language?

Are you pretending not to see how a language outside your tribe opens up more opportunities. The entire tribes of Africa and South America underwent the same massive foreign language reeducation now being demonized

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#268

Post by adventured » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

madenine wrote: post #243

smithza wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. We cannot place our hopes in capitalism to deal with these human-rights atrocities, even though there is much the NBA could do to use their financial power to influence the region and demand change. MLK would use boycotts to force racist busi…

> Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. I don't understand this take. Why does LeBron James have to address human rights in China before he, a Black American, can address human rights abuses against Black Americans in America?

That's a false choice, as James can do both things. He can choose to focus to a greater degree on matters in the US, and focus to a lesser degree on China, since his priorities are obviously in the US.

Why should he take an interest? Beyond the matter of being a world famous person with a giant bullhorn to speak from, he's also making an obscene sum of money from China and its people and stands to keep doing so. That's vulgar morally if you then simultaneously ignore what's going on there and refuse to say anything with your platform.

It is not difficult in terms of time or technically, for James to say something about China's human rights abuses on his prominent Twitter account (whether about Xinjiang or Hong Kong as two prominent examples). It would take a very small amount of effort and time. He doesn't do it because he's a hypocritical coward and knows China is a giant financial golden ticket and he doesn't dare upset them because he knows how they would react (the same reason so many are afraid of China and yet not afraid to say something against the US). The whole of the NBA is very terrified of China economically, the NBA hasn't been very subtle about their trembling post the Houston Rockets incident.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#269

Post by nate_meurer » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #183

nate_meurer wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison work release programs in the US have no fucking resemblance to forced labor in chinese concentration camps. US prison work release programs are strictly voluntary, are paid (a pathetic pittance, but still paid), and prisoners can use the work experience to support applications for early parole. In many cases the work experience is valuable for gaining employment after parole. The natural result is that these p…

For those interested, hourly pay for prisoners in the US can legally be as low as $0.04. Three orders of magnitude away from citizen wages, i.e. a citizen working 3 days ~= 10 years prison labor. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/

Yes, as I said above, and as the link I gave said, the pay is insultingly, embarrassingly low. And yet work release programs remain highly popular among US inmates. It allows inmates -- even violent felons in some cases -- to do meaningful work outside the prison, gain credit for their debt to society, and gain work experience they can use later. Yes the pay is way too low, and yes these voluntary programs are often very valuable to the inmates. Both these things can be true simultaneously. Read the link I gave you for a start.

You got anything more to say about your bullshit comparison to concentration camps? Or are you going to go on pretending that low wages was your only point?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#270

Post by crocodiletears » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #245

crocodiletears wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US could just extract a few key TSMC engineers, turn its facilities into a crater, and back out. I don't think anyone wants to start WWIII with China over an exiled Chinese government living on an island that's less than 200 miles from the Chinese mainland other than an occupied Taiwanese people. I'm not even certain that the US could land a force in the area, given China's investment in defensive missile install…

Appeasement didn't work back in the 1930s and won't work now. Let China take Taiwan and they'll probably look at Vietnam or even South Korea or Japan.

It's not appeasement. It's just not worth it. Wasting American blood in a region built up to be defensible specifically against the Americans to save a government that mostly only exists out of spite seems like a poor investment.

The kind of withdrawal I described would likely be accompanied by the expulsion of all non-immigrant Chinese nationals, a military build-up in friendly regional territories, and deployments in anticipation of blockading Chinese energy imports.