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Why books don't work (2019)

andymatuschak.org

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Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#131

Post by rtx »

hacknat wrote: post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

>Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know.

I read about a similar concept few years ago. https://fs.blog/2013/06/the-antilibrary/

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#132

Post by austinl »

hacknat wrote: post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

People also expect too much after reading a book just once. Reading a book once isn't enough to make a lasting impression, if you're able to remember anything at all — especially for a complex book like Thinking, Fast and Slow.

The books I truly love, I've read at least three times, with pages full of highlights and notes. Re-reading a great book is worth more than reading the latest trends. Seneca wrote a bit about this nearly 2000 years ago:

Be careful, however, that there is no element of discursiveness and desultoriness about this reading you refer to, this reading of many different authors and books of every description. You should be extending your stay among writers whose genius is unquestionable, deriving constant nourishment from them if you wish to gain anything from your reading that will find a lasting place in your mind.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#133

Post by banach_d »

Is it worth mentioning that many people enjoy reading books? If you spend 6-9 hours reading a book and you didn't particularly enjoy that time, probably your cost-benefit analysis is going to be completely different from the primary intended audience of most books, people who will enjoy reading it.

If you don't enjoy reading books, you don't have to read them.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#135

Post by Bodell »

austinl wrote: post #132
hacknat wrote: post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

People also expect too much after reading a book just once . Reading a book once isn't enough to make a lasting impression, if you're able to remember anything at all — especially for a complex book like Thinking, Fast and Slow . The books I truly love, I've read at least three times, with pages full of highlights and notes. Re-reading a great book is worth more than reading the latest trends. Seneca wrote a bit abou…

I often quote this line from Nabokov “Curiously enough, one cannot read a book: one can only reread it. A good reader, a major reader, an active and creative reader is a rereader.” [1]

Also, these books mentioned, as all non-fiction books do, include a bibliography. If someone wants to learn more, they simply should read more.

We can’t expect any device, book or otherwise, to do the work for us. If someone is not getting what they want out of it, I would suggest that they work harder.

“I believe that learning at its best is the antithesis of comfort.” Ruth J. Simmons, 18th president of Brown University. [2]

[1] http://www.en.utexas.edu/amlit/amlitprivate/scans/goodre.htm...

[2] https://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2001-02/01-...

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#136

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ginko wrote: post #76
hacknat wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western culture seems to suffer from collective ADHD. People expect small morsels of information/experience to give them much and people eschew deeper, longer, more meaningful experiences. I could go on.

What is particularly Western about this? And compared to what? Do you just mean modern culture?

Modern culture might be a more apt term—but an alternate viewpoint would be, people living in huts in rural Africa probably don't have this problem.

Then again, of course, I'm sure that applies to plenty of people in the western hemisphere as well.

So, I think it could be argued that the term "western culture" is a misnomer in general, and maybe even a problematic one—but I don't think GP was out of line with common usage.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#137

Post by blackbear_ »

dawg- wrote: post #56

The author cites three mediocre pop science books and is dismayed that after a single reading, he finds himself unable to impress people at parties with his knowledge. He says those books each take "6 to 9 hours" to read. Life changing books are read over the course of...well...an entire life. I have a small handful of books that I have read dozens of times. These are books with very big, and very old, ideas. They ha…

Could you share what those books are? Seems like they contain useful insights and others might benefit from reading them.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#138

Post by jihadjihad »

dawg- wrote: post #56

The author cites three mediocre pop science books and is dismayed that after a single reading, he finds himself unable to impress people at parties with his knowledge. He says those books each take "6 to 9 hours" to read. Life changing books are read over the course of...well...an entire life. I have a small handful of books that I have read dozens of times. These are books with very big, and very old, ideas. They ha…

Do you mind sharing your small list of books that have so impacted you?

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#139

Post by goostavos »

loughnane wrote: post #57

I fear the author, and many others, have treated many books as a thing to get through rather than a thing to make a part of yourself. There is an excellent book (as it happens) called How To Read A Book by Mortimer J. Adler. The focus is on how to read for improved understanding rather than pleasure. There are many great ideas and tactics in the book but these are the ones that jump out for me: - Not all books or eve…

How To Read A Book is just crazy good. It's on the very small list of books that had a distinct "before and after" effect on my thinking. I read it in my early 20s and it is still at the top of my mind while I read a decade later.

Only update I'd make to those suggestions is moving writing from the margins to external notes. I'd lose so many notes, interesting quotes, or "to look into" things to the margins once I closed the book. Centralizing everything makes it much easier to search for past notes, find related ones, or just completely retrace the skeleton of a book at a glance.

Also, if you read that book in public, get ready for a deluge of strangers making the exact same joke about reading a book about how to read a book.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#140

Post by banach_d »

scott_s wrote: post #120

Books rarely teach a subject to a person. It's more about shaping the concept in their mind . Let's take a book that shaped how I think about the media: "The Powers that Be" by David Halberstam. It's a tome of a book, clocking in at over 700 pages. It is a history and analysis of American media in the 20th century. I cannot recite many anecdotes or facts from it - although it's entirely possible, maybe even likely, t…

Recently someone said to me - rather than think of books as milestones to be completed, think of time spent with a book as a goal in itself, not a cost. This applies to lots of 'improving' books. If you spend an hour reading one of the books the article cited, you've spent an hour analysing detailed arguments in biology/history/psychology. An hour on a technical book, is an hour considering the problems and issues related to using that technology. An hour with biography or narrative history is an hour imagining what it would be like to be someone else or live in a completely different era. An hour with a self-help/motivational book is an hour thinking about yourself and what you achieve or overcome. An hour with a book of argumentative reasoning is an hour trying to argue with the author in your head. And so on.
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