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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#101

Post by swarnie_ »

aloukissas wrote: post #93
swarnie_ wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to Athens last summer and spent 4 nights in the city staying in an AirBnB style rent. I thought it would be better doing this than giving my money to a generic international hotel chain but you disagree apparently. I find your solution unworkable personally. When I travel I like to have somewhere private I can come back to after a long day, the coach surfing model doesn't appeal to couples.

Unfortunately, most of the owners of Airbnb and other short-term rentals in Greece are non-Greek citizens who got a "golden passport" in the recent years, buying off a huge chunk of the apartment inventory in Athens and elsewhere. Re: couch-surfing -- probably a bad metaphor on my end. I meant the "rent a room in a house" model that Airbnb offers.

I had no idea. Thinking back I doubt the place we stayed was ever intended to be a rental, it felt like a very large house which had been portioned up in to 4 flats and a make-shift reception area added.

Cool city but some worrying experiences, might check out some islands next time.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#102

Post by vertis »

foolfoolz wrote: post #52
joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

of course no one wants an air bnb neighbor. when you own a house and the property next door is a renter that’s worse than an owner there full time. what if a fence needs to be replaced on the property line? you think that owner will care as much? you put so much of your money and value into property that you want everyone around you to do the same. the shared investment makes everyone try a little harder. short term…

This is equally true of a apartment block full of long-term tenants (at least in Australia). If none of the owners live there then they have precious little incentive to fix things and the tenants have no power.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#103

Post by barrkel »

sokoloff wrote: post #79
skullx wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure there is a lot of options other than Hotels that would cover your needs, that existed long before Airbnb. Just to name a few you can stay in aparthotels , a common thing in almost every country, or you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner, instead of doing it through Airbnb. IMO Airbnb does more bad than good and transform centric areas of big cities in amusement park for the tour…

> you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner, instead of doing it through Airbnb AirBnB actually solves a lot of this problem, though. I can't imagine the difficulty of finding 20-30 different, independent, 1-month apartment stays directly with the apartment owners, dealing with security deposits and short-term leases, etc. They're a directory/marketplace/availability clearinghouse. They're an inte…

booking.com? This press release seems timely: https://www.hotelbusiness.com/booking-com-implements-long-te...

It's easy enough to filter to self-catering apartments on booking.com. My partner and I generally stay self-catering wherever we go, we prefer the comfort of an apartment over the amenities that a hotel is able to provide.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#104

Post by soperj »

stingraycharles wrote: post #43
joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

This type is of stuff is why cities have zoning, and I feel like all this Airbnb discussion is just people realizing why things were like they were. As a tourist who occasionally used Airbnb myself, of course I enjoy it but it’s not like I couldn’t enjoy a hotel. I completely understand why it’s bad for communities. There must be some middle ground to be reached here, but when in doubt, I would err on the side of com…

I guess as a tourist with a family, it's completely different. Hotels suck for small kids. Having a room with a door that can close, and a space outside is such a massively different experience than a hotel room.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#105

Post by gherkinnn »

tayo42 wrote: post #86
fluffything wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't want to live in industrial areas, or fully commercial areas either. That's what "zoning" is for. Maybe the city should just designate a zone / neighborhood for short term rentals and call it a day.

Apparently the travelers don't want that because they can't role play being a local. Though in Paris the hotels are, apartments and business are all mixed together in the same areas

Here’s an idea: have a tourist zone full of Airbnb-type flats. Fill it with coffee shops, bars, and pay locals to be there as extras.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#106

Post by throwaway0a5e »

theplague42 wrote: post #91
murbard2 wrote: post #54

What's in a title? "Paris hails victory". No. The city government of Paris hails a victory. Whether that's a victory for the city and its inhabitants is a very different matter.

Surely the government is elected by the inhabitants, right?

Just because the losing side isn't yet willing to start shooting people over it doesn't mean that the people who are pro-whatever outnumber the people who are anti-whatever by any margin worth mentioning.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#107

Post by vertis »

dannyr wrote: post #69
vertis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, that's funny. I had a horrible night at a hotel in Ireland, where the room next door was partying and the attendant was just powerless to stop it (he tried).

That's the exception rather than the rule. Most decent hotels have staff and security.

Wasn't decent, and one could argue that we got what we paid for :)

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#108

Post by iagovar »

swarnie_ wrote: post #88
aloukissas wrote: post #33

Glad to see this. The same thing (to a worse degree) has happened in Athens, where the supply of rental units has diminished to more than 1/3 (with average rents going 2-3x in a 1-2 year period), as landlords converted units to short-term rentals. This is particularly touchy for Greece, as tourism accounts for 25%+ of GDP, so tourist-friendly regulation has a big impact. OTOH, it's a country with one of the lowest av…

I came to Athens last summer and spent 4 nights in the city staying in an AirBnB style rent. I thought it would be better doing this than giving my money to a generic international hotel chain but you disagree apparently. I find your solution unworkable personally. When I travel I like to have somewhere private I can come back to after a long day, the coach surfing model doesn't appeal to couples.

In many cases you're also paying to a generic international investor. I'd recommend aparthotels for that matter.

Searching around my area, they are all locally owned, or seem to.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#109

Post by sokoloff »

barrkel wrote: post #103
sokoloff wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner, instead of doing it through Airbnb AirBnB actually solves a lot of this problem, though. I can't imagine the difficulty of finding 20-30 different, independent, 1-month apartment stays directly with the apartment owners, dealing with security deposits and short-term leases, etc. They're a directory/marketplace/availability clearinghouse. They're an inte…

booking.com? This press release seems timely: https://www.hotelbusiness.com/booking-com-implements-long-te... It's easy enough to filter to self-catering apartments on booking.com. My partner and I generally stay self-catering wherever we go, we prefer the comfort of an apartment over the amenities that a hotel is able to provide.

I agree there are many other AirBnB competitors. If AirBnB went away 100% and these competitors stepped in to fill that gap, I'm not sure the neighborhood impact is reduced by much. I mean, I've rented on vrbo, homeaway, booking, expedia, and airbnb.

Regardless of which platform I booked on, I'm the same tourist when I show up.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#110

Post by sokoloff »

literallycancer wrote: post #83
deegles wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even a refund sometimes. If you look at the 30+ day Airbnb rentals their policy is "full refund, except for the first 30 days." I had to be really careful to pick a place that had good reviews because I wouldn't be able to get much back.

If there are problems with the place, like that it looks like shit you are going to ultimately win the chargeback dispute, but it's annoying regardless. And of course the Airbnb dispute resolution process is complete garbage designed to annoy the user enough so that they give up. Gotta get those numbers up, right?

Datapoint of just one: I had one AirBnB disaster as a renter. Support did initially steer me towards a compromise (to accept the place with a reduction in rent) but as soon as I persisted, they agreed to a full refund (including the platform fee). It wasn't a difficult experience at all.

I was on my own to find a place to stay, but it was Vegas, so that was trivial.

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