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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#51

Post by dannyw »

legitster wrote: post #35
weego wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a healthy housing market like the one I own a rental property in, long-term rental is a margin business while you have mortgage and taking to account wear and tear etc and encourages properties being kept in family friendly sizes and year round accommodation for people who need to live and work locally. The airbnb model allows you to have much larger margins while the property empty for periods of time, promotes s…

I would push back a bit on a few points here: - Airbnbs are generally concentrated in touristy urban areas - places that are pricey to begin with. Or spaces that did not make for good apartments (small mother-in-laws, basement conversions). Airbnbs are not displacing inventory on the low end of the market, and potentially bring new inventory to the market. - Airbnbs rarely sit empty. The market is pretty efficient, a…

Not GP. I agree with all of your points but I think it’s realistic for property owners to want to not live near Airbnbs. Especially on the lower end of the Airbnb market.

This is a nuanced issue, but as someone who used to famously defend Airbnb, etc, i feel the consequences are very real.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#52

Post by foolfoolz »

joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

of course no one wants an air bnb neighbor. when you own a house and the property next door is a renter that’s worse than an owner there full time. what if a fence needs to be replaced on the property line? you think that owner will care as much? you put so much of your money and value into property that you want everyone around you to do the same. the shared investment makes everyone try a little harder. short term visits or even renters don’t share the investment and don’t care

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#53

Post by vertis »

cortesoft wrote: post #41
legitster wrote: post #18

Airbnb listings are associated with a fairly small but noticeable increase in rents: https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-c... But the question I always wonder is what's so special about hotels that they get to build dozens or hundreds of apartments but don't have to put them on the market? It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning, and it doesn't seem fair to punish Airbnb owne…

Hotels have staff that supervise guests. They often have their own security, and have a lot of regulations on what they can and can't do. Airbnb units often don't have anyone supervising their visitors.

Hah, that's funny. I had a horrible night at a hotel in Ireland, where the room next door was partying and the attendant was just powerless to stop it (he tried).

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#55

Post by dannyw »

reaperducer wrote: post #21
gedy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mainly to protect Hotels, bed-taxes, etc.

It's mainly to protect Hotels, bed-taxes, etc. No, it's mainly to protect residents. The people who actually make a city a city. If you're looking for greed and cash, look to the Airbnb companies that operate hundreds or thousands of rentals. Hotels are zoned into commercial areas so that they don't ruin residential areas. Airbnb flouts that. There are places in Chicago where corporations that own fleets of Airbnb bu…

This actually reminds me of big miners eating small miners when it came to mining cryptocurrency.

We used to have arguments about whether bitcoin is valuable if everyone didn’t have a chance to mine.

I guess such is capitalism.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#56

Post by vertis »

littleweep wrote: post #10
lhnz wrote: post #9

I wonder if this has a positive or negative effect on tourism within Paris?

I feel like someone first decides on a destination and then decides on where to stay. I don't think a sizable portion of travelers prioritize staying in an apartment or private home over visiting Paris.

As a digital nomad we almost always look at accommodation before deciding to go somewhere and it's mostly always AirBnB, since hotels don't have the facilities we need.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#57

Post by bogomipz »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #30
xphilter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just housing prices. It’s community and neighborhood. People want to live in a neighborhood with actual people, not a decentralized hotel. I say this as someone who has done short term rentals in Paris—it was nice for me, but I can see how annoying it must be for residents.

I wonder if this argument holds less weight now that people in blocks of flats in some metropolises have less interest in interacting with their neighbours than decades ago -- in Helsinki for instance it is a faux pas to speak to one's neighbours, and some even claim that politeness demands you check through the peephole that the hallway is empty before going out, so you don't bump into a neighbour and make him/her u…

>"I wonder if this argument holds less weight now that people in blocks of flats in some metropolises have less interest in interacting with their neighbours than decades ago -- in Helsinki for instance it is a faux pas to speak to one's neighbours, and some even claim that politeness demands you check through the peephole that the hallway is empty before going out, so you don't bump into a neighbour and make him/her uncomfortable."

What evidence is there that people in "some metropolises have less interest in interacting with their neighbours than decades ago"? I can't speak for Helsinki but honestly the behavior you describe sounds borderline pathological. I've lived in many cities around the world and would not describe that as common.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#58

Post by [deleted] »

graeme wrote: post #37
helen___keller wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning Talk about an understatement. The use of zoning, as far as I can tell, became a frenzy to use this tool to solve every pet problem. Lack of parking, businesses too loud near residences, blocking light, enforcing neighborhood character or feel, keeping "those people" out of your neighborhood, etc. The end result is that zoning is just paralysis for urban dev…

Is airbnb controversial in Japan or a non-issue? Their zoning system should be a good test case.

[deleted]

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#60

Post by peterlk »

bradlys wrote: post #50
littleweep wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like someone first decides on a destination and then decides on where to stay. I don't think a sizable portion of travelers prioritize staying in an apartment or private home over visiting Paris.

Probably should speak for yourself. We definitely look at the accommodations while looking at a place to travel to. If it’s too expensive, we won’t go. Airbnb is significantly less expensive than hotels for many places. We couldn’t even get a damn hotel when we tried to visit Rome. (Short of them being $300+/night, way out of our budget) If the only thing available is extremely expensive hotels (especially if they’re…

Accommodation cost is the primary heuristic I use for travel. I have a personal model for places to go, and I actually prefer going to places with lower prices because the most expensive places are often just tourist traps. The places with lower prices and decent amenities but fewer tourist destinations tend to be the places that I enjoy the most.
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