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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#21

Post by reaperducer »

gedy wrote: post #5
dalbasal wrote: post #3

I don't fall strongly on either side of these debates, but I'm kind of against the debate as a whole. I just don't think that trade offs between short stay rentals, even airbnb hotels, and rental housing has much of a win in it for renters even if advocates get everything they want. It seems like a marginal, symbolic issue that sucks up a lot of attention without the potential for meaningful results. Are bans on shor…

It's mainly to protect Hotels, bed-taxes, etc.

It's mainly to protect Hotels, bed-taxes, etc.

No, it's mainly to protect residents. The people who actually make a city a city. If you're looking for greed and cash, look to the Airbnb companies that operate hundreds or thousands of rentals.

Hotels are zoned into commercial areas so that they don't ruin residential areas. Airbnb flouts that.

There are places in Chicago where corporations that own fleets of Airbnb buildings bought up half the residential properties on a single block and turned them into Airbnb rentals. It destroyed the quality of life for the people who have put all of their money and time into the neighborhood.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#22

Post by centimeter »

xphilter wrote: post #6
dalbasal wrote: post #3

I don't fall strongly on either side of these debates, but I'm kind of against the debate as a whole. I just don't think that trade offs between short stay rentals, even airbnb hotels, and rental housing has much of a win in it for renters even if advocates get everything they want. It seems like a marginal, symbolic issue that sucks up a lot of attention without the potential for meaningful results. Are bans on shor…

It’s not just housing prices. It’s community and neighborhood. People want to live in a neighborhood with actual people, not a decentralized hotel. I say this as someone who has done short term rentals in Paris—it was nice for me, but I can see how annoying it must be for residents.

The way to fix that is to bring back effective covenants. Covenants were neutered in the US under the guise of the civil rights movement; the government explicitly wanted to stop people from deciding what kind of neighborhood they wanted to live in, because most people want to live with their own ethnic group.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#23

Post by raziel2p »

legitster wrote: post #18

Airbnb listings are associated with a fairly small but noticeable increase in rents: https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-c... But the question I always wonder is what's so special about hotels that they get to build dozens or hundreds of apartments but don't have to put them on the market? It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning, and it doesn't seem fair to punish Airbnb owne…

Hotels don't get built on ground designated for residential, surely?

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#25

Post by loceng »

legitster wrote: post #18

Airbnb listings are associated with a fairly small but noticeable increase in rents: https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-c... But the question I always wonder is what's so special about hotels that they get to build dozens or hundreds of apartments but don't have to put them on the market? It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning, and it doesn't seem fair to punish Airbnb owne…

Arguably the pressures of increased cost is distributed exponentially, so the whatever the top of the market can tolerate puts a compounded level of stress/pressure downstream on society.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#26

Post by hocuspocus »

gedy wrote: post #5
dalbasal wrote: post #3

I don't fall strongly on either side of these debates, but I'm kind of against the debate as a whole. I just don't think that trade offs between short stay rentals, even airbnb hotels, and rental housing has much of a win in it for renters even if advocates get everything they want. It seems like a marginal, symbolic issue that sucks up a lot of attention without the potential for meaningful results. Are bans on shor…

It's mainly to protect Hotels, bed-taxes, etc.

If you live in a touristic city, it's not the main reason, no... But even if it were, how's that supposed to be an argument in favor of AirBnB?

Of course residents want tourists and visitors to stay in hotels or serviced apartments, and the city to collect taxes.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#27

Post by city41 »

legitster wrote: post #18

Airbnb listings are associated with a fairly small but noticeable increase in rents: https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-c... But the question I always wonder is what's so special about hotels that they get to build dozens or hundreds of apartments but don't have to put them on the market? It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning, and it doesn't seem fair to punish Airbnb owne…

Usually you don't have to worry if the house next door is going to get torn down and a hotel raised in its place.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#28

Post by boudin »

dalbasal wrote: post #3

I don't fall strongly on either side of these debates, but I'm kind of against the debate as a whole. I just don't think that trade offs between short stay rentals, even airbnb hotels, and rental housing has much of a win in it for renters even if advocates get everything they want. It seems like a marginal, symbolic issue that sucks up a lot of attention without the potential for meaningful results. Are bans on shor…

The answer is clearly yes. Being able to convert apartments to short term rentals for tourists while bypassing the whole legislation in place does reduce housing availability. For example, you are supposed to build an apartment equivalent to the one you are converting to a tourism rental in a lot of cities in France. Airbnb does not enforce that and was a way for dodgy companies to bypass the law.

This won't force affordable housing issues which are a much bigger problem, but airbnb did create a gray market area and it does make sense to regulate it.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#29

Post by nixusg »

littleweep wrote: post #10
lhnz wrote: post #9

I wonder if this has a positive or negative effect on tourism within Paris?

I feel like someone first decides on a destination and then decides on where to stay. I don't think a sizable portion of travelers prioritize staying in an apartment or private home over visiting Paris.

For a period I was a digital nomad and stayed in a few cities for ~1 month each. Airbnb allowed us to immerse ourselves in the local neighborhoods and get a real feel for the places. If I had to stay in a hotel for that same period I probably would have chosen a different destination.

Paris was not one of the places we stayed though.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#30

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

xphilter wrote: post #6
dalbasal wrote: post #3

I don't fall strongly on either side of these debates, but I'm kind of against the debate as a whole. I just don't think that trade offs between short stay rentals, even airbnb hotels, and rental housing has much of a win in it for renters even if advocates get everything they want. It seems like a marginal, symbolic issue that sucks up a lot of attention without the potential for meaningful results. Are bans on shor…

It’s not just housing prices. It’s community and neighborhood. People want to live in a neighborhood with actual people, not a decentralized hotel. I say this as someone who has done short term rentals in Paris—it was nice for me, but I can see how annoying it must be for residents.

I wonder if this argument holds less weight now that people in blocks of flats in some metropolises have less interest in interacting with their neighbours than decades ago -- in Helsinki for instance it is a faux pas to speak to one's neighbours, and some even claim that politeness demands you check through the peephole that the hallway is empty before going out, so you don't bump into a neighbour and make him/her uncomfortable. Plus, there must be a greater turnover of tenants these days due to study and job mobility, so why bother trying to build relationships.
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