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Why books don't work (2019)

andymatuschak.org

71–80 of 221 posts

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#71
post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

I agree. The anti-book sentiment has felt quite strong lately, and this article is another example.

I think people feel subconsciously guilty that they do not read more. It is thus easier to dismiss books than to acknowledge the fact that most attention spans have been reduced the the granularity of a comment thread. We are all victims to this. Reading a book takes more effort than it used to.

I fear that most people have already read the last book they will complete in their lifetime (not that completing a book is necessary in deriving value from it).

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#72
post #13

For the given examples: The Selfish Gene; Thinking, Fast and Slow; Guns, Germs, and Steel, there is another issue not covered in the article: the books are philosophical interpretations of some facts the author chose to support their theories. Even more so, some of those facts and studies have been since debunked. So for these examples it is my opinion that it's not a case of books not working, but of very healthy br…

Agree. I found Thinking, Fast and Slow painfully biased

Read older books.

I became excited with Jordan Peterson's first videos and bought his book "12 rules" when it came out. I skimmed it and... I'm literally using it as a footrest. Peterson is a powerful speaker but has little content.

Older books:

(a) Have stood the test of time.

(b) Typically arose in a time where intellectual celebrity fermented in core intellectual circles first, and only then popularized.

Kahneman and Tversky have their share of technical contributions but were catapulted to thought leaders (and Nobel-Sveriges Bank prize winners) due to classic tokenism: someone from psychology or behavioral science had to win. The same just happen to someone two rungs below their level, Esther Duflo.

If she comes out with a popular book, don't buy it. Read Polanyi's "The Great Transformation", if inclined to left-ish ideas, or Richard Powers' novel "Gain", otherwise.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#73
post #67
post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

What does this have to do with "Western" culture?

Western culture seems to suffer from collective ADHD. People expect small morsels of information/experience to give them much and people eschew deeper, longer, more meaningful experiences. I could go on.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#74
I don't find this line of thinking to be compelling at all, unless you make certain assumptions that I don't agree with. For one, you'd have to assume that the "big idea" of a book is that you read it once, like a novel, and should have great recall of a large body of details / minutia from said book. IMO, it just "doesn't work like that."

If you want to learn from a book, you have to play a more active role. Personally I find that the process of learning from a book involves A. read it once, straight through like a novel - maybe underlining key passages in pencil, then B. reading again and taking detailed notes as you read, and possibly looking up citations, or related references (the Wikipedia page for a particular term or phrase, for example), then C. re-reading your notes a couple of times as well as reading and re-reading supplemental material that you found, and finally D. writing your own synthesis of the material.

Yes, that's a lot of work and yes it takes a long time and no, not every book justifies doing all that. Sometimes it's OK to just read the book like a novel, and walk away with just a vague memory of the highest level themes and maybe detailed recall or one or two specific points that resonated with you. It all depends on why you're reading the book and what you hope to get out of it.

Edit: and if it's a book with exercises, then add "do the exercises" as another step. That said, I see reading / working through a textbook to really "learn a subject" as being a slightly different thing from reading the typical pop-sci book or business book or whatever, that doesn't generally have exercises. "Learning a subject" to me usually involves using multiple books, videos, articles, maybe writing some code, etc.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#75

For the given examples: The Selfish Gene; Thinking, Fast and Slow; Guns, Germs, and Steel, there is another issue not covered in the article: the books are philosophical interpretations of some facts the author chose to support their theories. Even more so, some of those facts and studies have been since debunked. So for these examples it is my opinion that it's not a case of books not working, but of very healthy br…

I can't comment on the others, but I'm a trained historian, and hating Guns, Germs, and Steel is probably the single thing that unites our field. It's vastly oversimplified, and gives anyone who reads it the idea that they understand the major forces shaping world history while ignoring most of the things that historians agree are more important than environmental determinism in that process.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#76
post #73
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with "Western" culture?

Western culture seems to suffer from collective ADHD. People expect small morsels of information/experience to give them much and people eschew deeper, longer, more meaningful experiences. I could go on.

What is particularly Western about this? And compared to what? Do you just mean modern culture?

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#77
post #67
post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

What does this have to do with "Western" culture?

What's your point? Are you trying to argue that the East-Coast culture of New York is similarly to blame?

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#78

I don't find this line of thinking to be compelling at all, unless you make certain assumptions that I don't agree with. For one, you'd have to assume that the "big idea" of a book is that you read it once, like a novel, and should have great recall of a large body of details / minutia from said book. IMO, it just "doesn't work like that." If you want to learn from a book, you have to play a more active role. Persona…

> OK to just read the book like a novel, and walk away with just a vague memory of the highest level themes and maybe detailed recall or one or two specific points that resonated with you.

As someone who has deep experience of learning from novels and communicating what they have to offer, the alternate protocol you outline for learning from books applies also to novels.

Under the auspices of literature there is much enduring value that readers can glean by reading through once, rereading passages of interest, and synthesizing an interpretation or response.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#79
I started off thinking he had a good point, but when he came to textbooks, I realized that it doesn't match reality. If what he claims were true, then books like Selfish Gene; Guns, Germs, and Steel, etc. should leave me with LESS knowledge than a typical textbook, which at least has questions, tests, etc. associated with it. But, in fact, I'm pretty sure that most textbooks have taught me precisely nothing, or at least nothing that I retained a year later, whereas Pinker, Taleb, Dawkins, Diamond, and other such authors have absolutely taught me things that stayed with me. So, there must be something missing, and I think it's this: good books stay with you a while. I think about them a lot, for some time after reading them I keep revisiting the ideas.

If I never did that, perhaps I would learn as little from them as the author of this post. But, for textbooks, this almost never happens, and that is probably why textbooks do worse than other non-fiction, even though by his analysis here the reverse should be the case.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#80
The best way to learn is one-on-one (given that the teacher/mentor knows what he is doing). We all have different processes and need different data to helps us get the big picture or tackle some problems more efficiently (eg: learning an instrument).

Unfortunately this approach is way too expensive and doesn't scale which is why we have all sorts of tech to distribute knowledge (books, classes, lectures, blogs, videos, etc).

I imagine 100 years from now we will have AI teachers that can reproduce the one-on-one experience.

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