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Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

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Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#131

Post by gamma_kappa »

daggerdrone wrote: post #58
dxbydt wrote: post #21

I grew up in a remote village in south India. We had over two dozen coconut trees in our yard. I made a long loop in the mud that went around all these trees. I'd pull water out of the well using a rope & pulley & pour it down the loop. The water would wind its way until it reached all the two dozen trees. About an hour of this water pulling & the loop would stay wet for a few hours. This sort of manual work was stan…

Just out of curiosity, if there was shortage of coconut harvesters, why were they poor? Can't they demand more money for the task?

As with any traditional profession in India, tree climbing is caste based and caste is based on birth. A persons profession is decided based on which family they are born into. In every village or town, there will be a family who does this job generation after generation. The castes who perform low level jobs such as tree climbing, weaving, farm labor etc. are collectively known as the Shudras. Shudras are the lowest level in the caste pyramid and were historically oppressed and were denied basic rights such as education.

Being illiterate and unorganized, they don't have any negotiating power, which is the reason for lower pay. They also had no choice because they were told that they were "born" to do this work.

The reason for shortage of harvesters is that, the latest generation does not want to take up the family job because of poor pay and low status. The younger generation wants to get educated and move to big cities to find better jobs, thanks to the progressive reforms and loosening of the caste system in the recent decades, at-least in urban areas. The current generation of tree climbers will probably be the last or second last generation who does this job.

Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#132

Post by naruvimama »

brainless wrote: post #62
daggerdrone wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, if there was shortage of coconut harvesters, why were they poor? Can't they demand more money for the task?

Most Indians, me including and people I know of, do not understand the concepts of pricing that Western countries talk about. Even now, in 2020, this comes up frequently in product pricing when I talk to founders in India who haven't seen the Western notion of pricing first hand.

The west operates in over production and abundance, and perhaps the way the economics work in the west would be criminal in developing countries.

Dumping food in landfills, milk in the fields or in the sea. Good groceries thrown into the garbage. It is optimised to maximise profits.

Even though the overall efficiency from farm to table is very good.

Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#133

Post by dharma1 »

iratewizard wrote: post #60
ponker wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people have more empathy for animals than for humans. The idea of a monkey forced/encouraged to climb a tree for a coconut tugs at their heartstrings the way a person does not.

Done right, it's the opposite for me. Those monkeys can live a happy life in the same way as an ox that pulls a tiller.

These are wild animals who are abducted and then chained to do forced labour. It doesn't sound like a happy life and if they had a choice in the matter, I doubt they would volunteer

Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#134

Post by gamma_kappa »

naruvimama wrote: post #130
distant_hat wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In India, dangerous stuff often pays less due to caste and other considerations. Manual sewage cleaners have a really high death rate in India and are paid peanuts.

Islamic + Christian colonialism covered about 1000 years, during which time the natives or Hindus were second class citizens. Somehow the poverty and destitution seems to be always blamed on the natives. Moreover Caste system is a European system introduced by the British to divide up communities.

The caste system existed long before Europeans ruled India. Caste system has roots in the Vedic society.

"The varnas originated in Vedic society (c. 1500–500 BCE). The first three groups, Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishya have parallels with other Indo-European societies, while the addition of the Shudras is probably a Brahmanical invention from northern India."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India#Vedic_va...

Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#135

Post by andi999 »

alienonwings wrote: post #121
andi999 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard in Thailand they trained monkeys to do the job. Is this also a possibility for India?

Given the fact that the training that goes behind this is a brutal busniess and the fact that monkey is a God figure, it would not be received well in India, I believe.

I do not think brutal training is necessary, but I might be wrong. Also I thought in India there a cows ploughing the fields, and they are also holy?

Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#136

Post by thinkloop »

daggerdrone wrote: post #58
dxbydt wrote: post #21

I grew up in a remote village in south India. We had over two dozen coconut trees in our yard. I made a long loop in the mud that went around all these trees. I'd pull water out of the well using a rope & pulley & pour it down the loop. The water would wind its way until it reached all the two dozen trees. About an hour of this water pulling & the loop would stay wet for a few hours. This sort of manual work was stan…

Just out of curiosity, if there was shortage of coconut harvesters, why were they poor? Can't they demand more money for the task?

Two guesses:

- There are a lot of alternatives to coconuts so if they become too expensive at market, people will buy other fruit, putting a ceiling on potential harvesting costs. If no one will do it at the price, better to just not pick them.

- There might not be an actual shortage, but since harvesting is a specialty craft that the whole business is beholden to, and too seasonal to hire in-house, the harvesters have lots of temporary power and scheduling optimization requirements between farms that makes it feel like there is a shortage. Kind'of like swimming pool builders in spring.

Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#137

Post by vats »

andi999 wrote: post #135
alienonwings wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the fact that the training that goes behind this is a brutal busniess and the fact that monkey is a God figure, it would not be received well in India, I believe.

I do not think brutal training is necessary, but I might be wrong. Also I thought in India there a cows ploughing the fields, and they are also holy?

I think the bulls plough the fields (which are not that holy).

Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#138

Post by enugu »

manquer wrote: post #95
daggerdrone wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, if there was shortage of coconut harvesters, why were they poor? Can't they demand more money for the task?

During 1970's time frame that OP is talking about, it is largely the effect of thousands of years caste based discrimination that denied education and basic rights for a big chunk of the population. Today it is problem of economics. Coconut trees typically grow in state of Kerala, a lot of the population there work in the Middle East oil economies , the pay is considerably better there. Paying competitively does not…

Education statistics were compiled in the British era, and these were referenced by Dharampal in his book 'The Beautiful Tree' which records the extensive education present in South India. Like a lot of claims, this doesnt stand up.

Nor does the claim of 'caste system started in colonial era' make sense.

Aside: For people interested in learning more about what I am talking about, read up Nicholas Dirks, Balagangadhara or Jalki, Pathan.

In short, hierarchies existed between different groups in India, but these do not follow a 'ancient thousand year old varna system'. For instance, Majority of the kings(and dominant land owning jatis to this day) are not Kshatriyas,(nor Brahmins or Vaishya) who were initiated into thread ceremony. This includes famous Hindu kings like Vijayangara era Hakka/Bukka who came from shepherd jatis.

Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#139

Post by dolmen »

munawwar wrote: post #68
brainless wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Indians, me including and people I know of, do not understand the concepts of pricing that Western countries talk about. Even now, in 2020, this comes up frequently in product pricing when I talk to founders in India who haven't seen the Western notion of pricing first hand.

Also, remind me.. the pricing of coconuts are low as well right? so the labor costs needs to be capped for profitability. But overall it's still odd..

The coconut price might be irrelevant if the coconut tree is in the garden of your home and a coconut fall might become a security issue.

Re: Indian robot climbs trees to harvest coconuts

#140

Post by jsinai »

inglor_cz wrote: post #127
Bang2Bay wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I donot Think children of potus would suddenly become sewer cleaners either. is that determination by birth? Problem has been and is poverty. if british government treated india like england none of these problems would exist.

British government treated English (and much worse, Irish) working class like dirt too. Poverty in 19th century Britain was indescribable, even though people like Dickens tried their best to put the images into writing for future generations. Victorian Britain was extremely classist.

However British government developed institutions in England and Ireland which eventually led to overall greater wealth and equality for most of the population. Whereas in India these institutions were systematically short-circuited to create inequality and a locus of power/wealth that favoured British colonialists.
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