Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent • Hacker News Board

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#121

Post by mjevans » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:31 AM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #106

rayiner wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country implemented rent/mortgage forgiveness? The US implemented mortgage deferral, plus SBA loans for rent for small businesses. The lack of general rent deferral was to force larger companies to bear some of the cost of shut downs. France and Germany didn’t do appreciably more—they simply imposed deferrals or moratorium on eviction.

How are you going to bail out landlords then? The money isn't going to come from nowhere.

Those seeking rents should be where the buck stops in a paused economy.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#122

Post by MiroF » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:31 AM UTC

threentaway wrote: post #60

01100011 wrote: post #46

Subsidizing the restaurants without getting anything in return seems like a misallocation of capital. Allowing 'creative destruction' on a massive scale is harmful to social stability and frankly just cruel. People didn't plan for it, because it is implied in our various social contracts that they don't need to(and that may be wrong, but this is not the time to fix that). We should consider subsidizing the restaurant…

> We need to be pragmatic and get our people and economy through this crisis OK, tax the rich. PS: It was the winning strategy before the crisis too.

What income do you consider the rich? I thought we were all in agreement, but I recently saw some Pew research that had me surprised.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#123

Post by mjfl » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:32 AM UTC

What leverage do landlords have in enforcing payment, if no one would move in if they evict a business? I certainly would only pay very discounted rent until society reopens and I think it would be insane for anyone to suggest otherwise.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#124

Post by paxys » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:33 AM UTC

nartz wrote: post #93

paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

This is over simplified. It's better to lose a finger to an infection or cancer, versus have it spread to all parts of the body. Its the same thing with fiscal policy.

Except in the present case we ended up with both.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#125

Post by hinkley » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:34 AM UTC

brutusborn wrote: post #94

hinkley wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think restaurants are for? It sounds like you think they’re a scam.

For providing food? I'm not sure what you are asking here, I can't imagine how a restaurant could be a scam.

You suggested they should give something back. Which implies that they aren’t already giving something back that is worth keeping on its own merits.

Which is a pretty dim view of both the service industry and third places like restaurants.

So I ask again, what do you think restaurants are for, since they aren’t, in your opinion, doing anything that is already worth preserving?

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#126

Post by sdoering » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:34 AM UTC

hieunc229 wrote: post #85

paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

If there is forgiveness in the hard time, there should be more to pay in the good time

Providing space for rent, especially to restaurants, is a gamble already in normal times. So one could argue that missing payments is part of the natural risk property owners have to bear.

On the other hand one could argue, that a government has to pay damages for business lost if they implement regulation shutting down that business.

At least, that is something that is part of modern international trade agreements. I know I shortened the argument here.

What I am trying to get to is the fact that there are no easy answers and that potential solutions will necessarily be colored by political leaning. This is a situation that is new and not solved with an easy fix.

Sadly.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#127

Post by daheza » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:35 AM UTC

clairity wrote: post #118

jacquesc wrote: post #27

Looks like The Onion was right on with their reporting: "Study Finds Most Restaurants Fail Within First Year Of It Becoming Illegal To Go To Them"

nyc and other municipalities really bungled the categorization of risk. restaurants and bars shouldn't have been lumped together in the first place. most restaurants could have employed some modest measures and stayed open at 80-90% capacity (which may be below break-even for some, but probably enough to ride out the pandemic with price hikes and/or modest gov loans), as risk is isolated between tables (no, that one…

I feel like this might ignore that a good portion of restaurant sales are from the bar. Chilis, Applebees, to an extent BJs Restaurant. I feel only a few companies have adopted to the fact that you can deliver alcohol. There's no reason that those bar sales, can't be from the restaurant over postmates or uber eats.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#128

Post by wongarsu » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:36 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #77

paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

Which country implemented rent/mortgage forgiveness? The US implemented mortgage deferral, plus SBA loans for rent for small businesses. The lack of general rent deferral was to force larger companies to bear some of the cost of shut downs. France and Germany didn’t do appreciably more—they simply imposed deferrals or moratorium on eviction.

Germany put a moratorium on evictions, allows deferral of some taxes, pays small and medium businesses up to three months of lost revenue (up to 150k€) and the state owned development bank gives out low interest loans to affected businesses.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#129

Post by abduhl » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:37 AM UTC

MiroF wrote: post #122

threentaway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to be pragmatic and get our people and economy through this crisis OK, tax the rich. PS: It was the winning strategy before the crisis too.

What income do you consider the rich? I thought we were all in agreement, but I recently saw some Pew research that had me surprised.

We should just use the same objective approach as we use for classifying other drivers: anyone going faster than me is a dangerous asshole and anyone going slower than me is a dangerous idiot.

But with salary instead of speed, I guess.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#130

Post by ashtonkem » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:37 AM UTC

Not surprising. Restaurants were marginal businesses during the best of times; reducing capacity by 25-50% is a death sentence for all but the most profitable ones.