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Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

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Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#101

Post by AniseAbyss »

rayiner wrote: post #77
paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

Which country implemented rent/mortgage forgiveness? The US implemented mortgage deferral, plus SBA loans for rent for small businesses. The lack of general rent deferral was to force larger companies to bear some of the cost of shut downs. France and Germany didn’t do appreciably more—they simply imposed deferrals or moratorium on eviction.

Bankruptcy is a form of debt forgiveness.

I don't see the problem, I see restaurants close only to see a new one move in a few months later. Even during good times its a risky business.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#102

Post by [deleted] »

t-writescode wrote: post #8
ars wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are "660,755" restaurants in the US (according to Google), and average rent is $5,000/month = $3,303,775,000 (3 billion per month). Seems doable? Except .... did you forget about all the other places not paying rent? My guess is around 10 million of them. So "only" $60 billion or so per month. Is that affordable? Well, do you want to pay that in taxes?

Let's walk this forward some. Restaurants provide jobs, probably 20ish jobs per restaurant. If every restaurant closed down, that's something like 12 million unemployed people who can no longer find employment at those restaurants. Some of those employees might even make enough money to pay taxes and not get their tax money back. What do you think the solution is, rather than just slamming someone's theory on what to…

[deleted]

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#103

Post by skybrian »

paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

I think it’s unsurprising that big changes to the legal system can’t easily be made on an ad-hoc, emergency basis. But that’s no excuse for not preparing for the next crisis.

Contracts should have a “disaster clause” suspending payment during an officially declared disaster. Perhaps Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae could require this for home mortgages?

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#104

Post by TuringNYC »

swiley wrote: post #47
DeonPenny wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not how any of this works. The problem with a market is you have a rate that if something is below it its not profitable for people to live in a place. Idk why people blame the building owners. And people who do this are always people with perfectly good couches in their living rooms but would never let a homeless person sleep there, but want others to give up a entire building.

That would work in a normal market but the realestate market hasn't been allowed to correct because we keep bailing it out by having the fed buy up all the debt. This raises rent because it decreases the supply (people can just hold onto buildings as investments and not bother renting them out or wait for someone willing to pay something that should be above market value) and also raises inflation. Let me explain it…

I always found it curious how large employers in Manhattan would be moving out because the rent was too high.

Simultaneously buildings would be converting into condos because they were unable to fill vacant commercial space. As an example, two buildings where I worked had this happen: 70 Pine Street (AIG) and 75 Wall Street(JPMorgan.)

Doesnt the market meet somewhere in the middle?

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#105

Post by mshumi »

Welcome to the everything bubble. We now have to choose whether people hurt in nominal or real terms. I think we will collectively decide to hurt real wealth rather than nominal wealth. All the two-sided obligations work out better that way. The difficulty of avoiding taxation on real wealth is probably for the 'greater good'.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#106

Post by anovikov »

rayiner wrote: post #77
paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

Which country implemented rent/mortgage forgiveness? The US implemented mortgage deferral, plus SBA loans for rent for small businesses. The lack of general rent deferral was to force larger companies to bear some of the cost of shut downs. France and Germany didn’t do appreciably more—they simply imposed deferrals or moratorium on eviction.

How are you going to bail out landlords then? The money isn't going to come from nowhere.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#107

Post by altdatathrow »

paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

PPP funds were designed for that (60% to payroll, 40% to rent/utils). However, they only provided ~2.5 months of coverage, and we're well beyond that.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#108

Post by postpawl »

AniseAbyss wrote: post #101
rayiner wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country implemented rent/mortgage forgiveness? The US implemented mortgage deferral, plus SBA loans for rent for small businesses. The lack of general rent deferral was to force larger companies to bear some of the cost of shut downs. France and Germany didn’t do appreciably more—they simply imposed deferrals or moratorium on eviction.

Bankruptcy is a form of debt forgiveness. I don't see the problem, I see restaurants close only to see a new one move in a few months later. Even during good times its a risky business.

It’s a problem when you consider the trillions more the fed sent to loans for big businesses + banks, buying stocks, and buying mortgage bonds (which also kinda went to banks).

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#109

Post by sitver »

skybrian wrote: post #103
paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

I think it’s unsurprising that big changes to the legal system can’t easily be made on an ad-hoc, emergency basis. But that’s no excuse for not preparing for the next crisis. Contracts should have a “disaster clause” suspending payment during an officially declared disaster. Perhaps Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae could require this for home mortgages?

Look up “Force Majore”

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#110

Post by MiroF »

jacquesc wrote: post #27

Looks like The Onion was right on with their reporting: "Study Finds Most Restaurants Fail Within First Year Of It Becoming Illegal To Go To Them"

> "Study Finds Most Restaurants Fail Within First Year Of It Becoming Illegal To Go To Them

Even without these laws, personal decisions would have decimated the business regardless. Even in places didn't shut down, patronage plummeted.

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