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Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

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Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#91

Post by TomVDB »

petre wrote: post #40
twblalock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the landlords didn't want to deal with loans then they should have paid cash for the properties. If the tenants didn't want to pay rent, they should not have signed leases. Why is it that tenants can get a break on their obligations but landlords can't? Why are tenants more deserving of help? Most landlords are not rich. They are providing a service to their tenants, who cannot afford to purchase buildings and w…

> A renter signs a contract promising to pay rent. They should use the force majeure clause to terminate their contracts and the landlords could sue if they don't like that. A pandemic is not unlike a flood or earthquake. This is exactly why such a clause exists in contracts. My boss negotiates a lower rent during a crisis. It’s fair enough. Would the landlord prefer a smaller amount to none at all?

> Would the landlord prefer a smaller amount to none at all?

As was explained a week or so ago by somebody in that business on Reddit: for commercial real estate, many landlords would prefer none at all over a smaller amount, because the loan is written with the assumption of a certain rent per unit, and if the average rent goes down, it breaches the loan conditions and the loan is revoked (or something like that.)

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#92

Post by nickthemagicman »

dannyw wrote: post #76
grey-area wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there's something going on we don't understand, because some places that were hit very hard first time round are not seeing a second wave.

Perhaps the "something" is simply antibodies and herd immunity? 1. In April (!!), 1 in 5 NYCers tested positive for antibodies: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/nyregion/coronavirus-anti... 2. Given asymmetric social contact patterns, experts estimate that ~20% may be the threshold for herd immunity of COVID: https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-... I support looking at the science, and this…

You're right on the money, but Democrats are hell bent on their corona virus scorched earth policy.

Make sure you vote accordingly in November.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#93

Post by nartz »

paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

This is over simplified. It's better to lose a finger to an infection or cancer, versus have it spread to all parts of the body. Its the same thing with fiscal policy.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#94

Post by brutusborn »

hinkley wrote: post #86
brutusborn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we not expect organizations to give something back?

What do you think restaurants are for? It sounds like you think they’re a scam.

For providing food? I'm not sure what you are asking here, I can't imagine how a restaurant could be a scam.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#95

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #77
paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

Which country implemented rent/mortgage forgiveness? The US implemented mortgage deferral, plus SBA loans for rent for small businesses. The lack of general rent deferral was to force larger companies to bear some of the cost of shut downs. France and Germany didn’t do appreciably more—they simply imposed deferrals or moratorium on eviction.

[deleted]

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#96

Post by bitcoinbutter »

davidw wrote: post #69
kgc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's at the top of the chain though?

The Federal Reserve? It seems like it could have all sort of just been put on 'pause' for the duration of the pandemic.

The Federal Reserve seems primarily focused on keeping asset prices high. Their policies seem to react directly to downward pressure in the equity markets.

When you consider that the appreciation of these markets only serves to widen the wealth gap, it becomes clear that the Fed's mandate is to preserve the wealth of the rich. They're pursuing "trickle down" economics at full speed, despite the overwhelming evidence that "trickle down" is a myth.

The US population is too busy arguing over race issues and partisan politics to realize the financial system is stealing from the poor and giving to the rich.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#97

Post by twblalock »

grey-area wrote: post #57
dehrmann wrote: post #35

Only related because NY, but NY state covid 19 new cases have been incredibly flat since June. I would think they'd trend closer to zero, up some, or just bounce around more. Normally, new cases are driven up by complacency and down by fear or policy, but there doesn't seem to be either happening quickly and subtly enough to keep new cases between 500 and 1000 for so long, and r0 should be metastable, so keeping it i…

Yes there's something going on we don't understand, because some places that were hit very hard first time round are not seeing a second wave.

Getting hit hard is probably why they don't see a second wave. They got the whole thing over with in one wave.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#98

Post by EpicEng »

pfisch wrote: post #67
paxys wrote: post #58

It's ridiculous that we couldn't coordinate a rent/mortgage forgiveness plan alongside all the customer bans put in place across the country. If a restaurant can't stay open, they shouldn't pay rent. If the property owner isn't getting rent, they shouldn't have to pay mortgage. And so on, up the entire chain.

When you go up that chain you will eventually run into a very serious monetary crisis that would crash the banks, the real estate market, and the entire economy.

You're going to have to explain that one in detail for me. We have now generated trillions in liquidity for corporations. Maybe I'm dumb; walk me through how this would "crash the banks", real estate, and "the entire economy".

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#99

Post by twblalock »

nartz wrote: post #87
twblalock wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you would end up with another bank bailout, except this time the banks didn't do anything wrong and it was the government's fault for screwing up the pandemic response. In other words, it would be compensation for the government's failure, not a bailout.

Everyone wants to blame someone - e.g. its the governments fault! In reality, its just an external force that everyone is dealing with, a plague, if you will - its not anyone's fault; it just must be faced, that during a plague, there will be suffering, and there will be casualties. It's that simple.

No, it is not that simple. There are various ways to respond to a plague, and some are better than others. Some responses result in far more casualties than others, in addition to the economic damage. We can all see that some governments responded well and others did not.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#100

Post by ABCLAW »

jariel wrote: post #42
ABCLAW wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the course of a given rental, unless the property was purchased almost immediately before a real-estate crash or rental crisis, the amount of cashflow generated by a tenant will cover the majority of the volume required to generate equity in the property. In certain cases, the financing for commercial real estate, for instance, will literally substitute the credit rating of tenants for those of the landlords - b…

This ignores the fact that if there were such obvious financial incentives, then restaurant owners would simply just buy said properties. 'Property management' is a real thing and businesses don't want to necessarily own property. Managing property is a service like any other - and rates for their goods are market based - just like any other market. "If a landlord is rendered insolvent, they aren't even rendered dest…

>This ignores the fact that if there were such obvious financial incentives, then restaurant owners would simply just buy said properties.

They do when they have the capital.

>"If a landlord is rendered insolvent, they aren't even rendered destitute;" - ? why do you assume that?

Because I've been through the books of multiple major banks, REITs, investment funds, commercial owners, commercial tenants, private individuals with residential real estate portfolios, etc.

You have to be incredibly negligent to lose money in an industry where your assets have been skyrocketing in value for over a decade.

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