Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent • Hacker News Board

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#11

Post by apta » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:17 AM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #7

nradov wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want my tax money used to bail out landlords. Let the lenders foreclose. If the landlords didn't want to deal with loans then they should have paid cash for the properties.

I'm interested in my tax money being used to help stabilize the local population to minimize harm to them during this time and thereby minimize unrest and keep the whole of it safer. If my money is going to be going to making missiles and weapons for overseas, some of it can come back and pay for rough times instead.

How will preventing lenders from foreclosing prevent harm? If anything, it will allow people to purchase property since prices will reduce as there is more supply in the market.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#12

Post by denkmoon » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:17 AM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #4

markdown wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That money just goes straight to landlords. Henry George's time has come.

Those landlords also need bailing out. They need to pay their loans, as well.

Do I get a bailout for my losses on the share market? What if I had bought shares on margin?

Why does one class of investor get a bailout but not others?

(Why bailout any investor? Risk is part of investment.)

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#13

Post by twblalock » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:17 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #5

t-writescode wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those landlords also need bailing out. They need to pay their loans, as well.

I don't want my tax money used to bail out landlords. Let the lenders foreclose. If the landlords didn't want to deal with loans then they should have paid cash for the properties.

> If the landlords didn't want to deal with loans then they should have paid cash for the properties.

If the tenants didn't want to pay rent, they should not have signed leases.

Why is it that tenants can get a break on their obligations but landlords can't? Why are tenants more deserving of help? Most landlords are not rich. They are providing a service to their tenants, who cannot afford to purchase buildings and would have no hope of opening a business if there were not landlords around willing to rent things out.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#14

Post by t-writescode » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:19 AM UTC

AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #9

t-writescode wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in my tax money being used to help stabilize the local population to minimize harm to them during this time and thereby minimize unrest and keep the whole of it safer. If my money is going to be going to making missiles and weapons for overseas, some of it can come back and pay for rough times instead.

A less drastic solution, which doesn't require much money, is to just force lenders to allow landlords who lost tenants or whose tenants can't pay to allow the landlord to defer loan payments (extending the final date of the loan). It's not exactly fair to landlords who own the properties outright, but, I can live with that.

Is it turtles all the way up? Do the landlords who are paying down their mortgage also get a deferment?

What do we do about the people that presently have no money? Do we also give them a stipend to pay for food, etc? Or force them onto credit cards?

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#15

Post by nradov » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:20 AM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #13

nradov wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want my tax money used to bail out landlords. Let the lenders foreclose. If the landlords didn't want to deal with loans then they should have paid cash for the properties.

> If the landlords didn't want to deal with loans then they should have paid cash for the properties. If the tenants didn't want to pay rent, they should not have signed leases. Why is it that tenants can get a break on their obligations but landlords can't? Why are tenants more deserving of help? Most landlords are not rich. They are providing a service to their tenants, who cannot afford to purchase buildings and w…

Owning real estate is an investment, not a right. It's no different than any other investment. If I have a loss on leveraged stock investments should the government bail me out?

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#16

Post by fakeslimshady » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:20 AM UTC

ars wrote: post #6

runawaybottle wrote: post #2

Bail them out. We bailed out far worse in this lifetime for us to wince at this.

There are "660,755" restaurants in the US (according to Google), and average rent is $5,000/month = $3,303,775,000 (3 billion per month). Seems doable? Except .... did you forget about all the other places not paying rent? My guess is around 10 million of them. So "only" $60 billion or so per month. Is that affordable? Well, do you want to pay that in taxes?

You still falling for that taxes trope? It will never come out of taxes. Politically impossible. No presidential regime will take the fall for that. No generation will take the fall for that.

That kinda money is just printed Zimbabwe style. The governments left pocket owes its right pocket.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#17

Post by wmf » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

markdown wrote: post #3

runawaybottle wrote: post #2

Bail them out. We bailed out far worse in this lifetime for us to wince at this.

That money just goes straight to landlords. Henry George's time has come.

Bailouts combined with mandated (maybe partial) rent forgiveness would ensure that money did not go straight to landlords.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#18

Post by sudosysgen » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #13

nradov wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want my tax money used to bail out landlords. Let the lenders foreclose. If the landlords didn't want to deal with loans then they should have paid cash for the properties.

> If the landlords didn't want to deal with loans then they should have paid cash for the properties. If the tenants didn't want to pay rent, they should not have signed leases. Why is it that tenants can get a break on their obligations but landlords can't? Why are tenants more deserving of help? Most landlords are not rich. They are providing a service to their tenants, who cannot afford to purchase buildings and w…

Because landlording is an investment, having shelter is a necessity. The landlords should carry the risk of tenants failing to pay.

If we stopped relief to everyone, tenants would stop paying, rents would crater, and landlord would be ruined much moreso than tenants, it's just the nature of investment.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#19

Post by peteretep » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #14

AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A less drastic solution, which doesn't require much money, is to just force lenders to allow landlords who lost tenants or whose tenants can't pay to allow the landlord to defer loan payments (extending the final date of the loan). It's not exactly fair to landlords who own the properties outright, but, I can live with that.

Is it turtles all the way up? Do the landlords who are paying down their mortgage also get a deferment? What do we do about the people that presently have no money? Do we also give them a stipend to pay for food, etc? Or force them onto credit cards?

If you can borrow from the central bank, the buck stops at you. Seems fair

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#20

Post by swiley » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #4

markdown wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That money just goes straight to landlords. Henry George's time has come.

Those landlords also need bailing out. They need to pay their loans, as well.

God no. They've been sitting on empty buildings for years. It's time for them to default on the underwater loans and let people actually put the wasted space to use.

Every city in the US has a similar issue including the one near where I grew up and it's the weirdest most broken thing. I remember many times walking down streets flanked by empty buildings with homeless people sleeping outside.