UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech • Hacker News Board

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#201

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 10:35 PM UTC

nybble41 wrote: post #198

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sophistry. Like the bully saying "Why are you hitting yourself?!" Ordinary coherent conversation is one thing. Inciting a riot etc is clearly a different thing. Because both begin with words is irrelevant.

"Inciting a riot" is no different from any other kind of speech. We're not talking about mind-control here, overriding the listeners' will. You speak and other people decide how they will react. They remain responsible for their own actions, just as you are responsible for yours. The difference is that your actions were limited to mere speech, which does not justify any kind of forceful response, whereas theirs invol…

That's clearly ignoring human nature, which includes crowd effects that are well-documented and unrelated to 'the listeners' will' or 'deciding how they will react'. Best to read up on this, before saying silly things.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#202

Post by pas » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:05 AM UTC

djohnston wrote: post #2

The last 5 years have really made question the benefits of free speech in our hyperconnected world. My knee jerk reaction to defend free speech has certainly been dampened by the efficacy of disinformation campaigns in the West.

Free flow of information is important, but not necessarily in any form. Eg. hate speech, which is pretty redundant. (The same slurs chanted for hours.) Similarly the same idiotic 2 bit memes and other forms of unfortunately rather effective propaganda is of little value after seeing the first few.

How to even categorize and how to introduce friction against these is the hard problem of free speech.

As long as someone contributes to a discussion that's valuable, even if their idea has a very low probability to be true/useful. But if they are simply repeating the same thing, they stopped contributing, they became noise.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#203

Post by jlokier » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

future_unclear wrote: post #172

jlokier wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words can cause trauma. A lasting, debilitating effect. Even changes to brain structure (PTSD etc) and long term disability. I regard that as a harm. Note that "cause harm" does not always imply "blame". It does imply cause and effect though, suggesting "responsibility".

Words cannot cause trauma. The mind engages with words in such a way that leads to trauma.

The question is about an ordinary meaning of "harm".

If you want to push back at that meaning on a technicality, is there anything called harm that is not, ultimately, dependent on how a mind engages with it?

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#204

Post by vilifiedtwin » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 12:07 AM UTC

The problem is the right to be offended that seems to be a catch all term that makes it okay to block anyone from speaking about things other people don't like. Government seems to have fallen into this trap and believed that if they don't do something about those poor people who feel offended, they will lost the next election. It's actually quite bold hypothesis that they have - of course the next lost elections will have nothing to do with increased taxes, more crime and reduced freedom. Not at all. It's all because those pesky people speak their mind on the internet.