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My least favorite Rust type

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Re: My least favorite Rust type

#51

Post by gpm »

the_hoser wrote: post #43
gpm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He demonstrably has a working compiler and programming language. Calling it a "fantasy" just because he has not given you full access to the source is plain incorrect. He streams so much of his development work on the compiler that a determined party could probably reproduce it by just copying the text from his text editor. He streams so much of his game development using the compiler that it obviously and unambiguou…

I can make a python script that prints out stuff while I'm streaming, too. He hasn't demonstrated squat. But, let's say he does have a working compiler. It's very probable that he does. Why doesn't he release it, then? Well you see, the only way it's possible to really effectively criticize a programming language is to use it. By not releasing the compiler, he avoids real criticism. So, no, I don't take him seriously…

> I can make a python script that prints out stuff while I'm streaming, too.

I really doubt this. The amount of effort and acting that would need to go into being able to script in advance the sort of mistakes you make when programming would be astronomic. You would have to never make a typo when you weren't supposed to, always make a typo when you are, somehow deal with the fact that when you get stuck you need to be able to respond to audience feedback, and so on and so forth. (Oh, and interactive 3d programs not just text to a terminal).

That's a lot harder than making a programming language.

> Why doesn't he release it, then?

Because he doesn't think public feedback would be helpful at this time. Because he wants to release software that he can take pride in instead of a alpha level programming language. Because that's what he is used to from game development. Because he feels like it. Etc. Why does it matter? You aren't entitled to it.

Re: My least favorite Rust type

#52

Post by saagarjha »

the_hoser wrote: post #43
gpm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He demonstrably has a working compiler and programming language. Calling it a "fantasy" just because he has not given you full access to the source is plain incorrect. He streams so much of his development work on the compiler that a determined party could probably reproduce it by just copying the text from his text editor. He streams so much of his game development using the compiler that it obviously and unambiguou…

I can make a python script that prints out stuff while I'm streaming, too. He hasn't demonstrated squat. But, let's say he does have a working compiler. It's very probable that he does. Why doesn't he release it, then? Well you see, the only way it's possible to really effectively criticize a programming language is to use it. By not releasing the compiler, he avoids real criticism. So, no, I don't take him seriously…

> I can make a python script that prints out stuff while I'm streaming, too. He hasn't demonstrated squat.

Creating a Python script that makes it look like you have an actual compiler is harder than you think it is.

> At best, he's scared of criticism, but wants to be able to criticize others. At worst, he's a fraud.

I wouldn't say he is scared of criticism, more like he is not yet at the state that he wants to accept criticism. I wouldn't want people to comment on my half-finished projects too, but this doesn't mean I can't say that something else couldn't be better.

Re: My least favorite Rust type

#53

Post by matklad »

>This does mean writing for n in (1..10).iter(), but Rust already requires that for collections, so it’s more consistent.

Even this needn't be the case. `Range` can implement `IntoIter` to plug into `for` loop syntax.

Another related problem is that `SliceIndex` (https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/slice/trait.SliceIndex.html) trait, which is used to implement indexing, is perma-unstable. So, even if you build your own better range, you can't make it play nicely with slices.

Re: My least favorite Rust type

#54

Post by CodesInChaos »

Making `InclusiveRange` an iterator (instead of merely an IntoIterator) was definitely a design mistake and `Range` probably shouldn't be one either.

Adding a `Copy` constraint seems a bit weird to me, since I expect those borrows (e.g. on `contains`) for consistency with collections. Deriving `Copy` (i.e. implementing it when the index type is `Copy`) should be enough.

One small mistake in the article is that you need a `PartialOrd` constraint not a `PartialEq` constraint to ensure start <= end.

Re: My least favorite Rust type

#55

Post by the_hoser »

gpm wrote: post #51
the_hoser wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can make a python script that prints out stuff while I'm streaming, too. He hasn't demonstrated squat. But, let's say he does have a working compiler. It's very probable that he does. Why doesn't he release it, then? Well you see, the only way it's possible to really effectively criticize a programming language is to use it. By not releasing the compiler, he avoids real criticism. So, no, I don't take him seriously…

> I can make a python script that prints out stuff while I'm streaming, too. I really doubt this. The amount of effort and acting that would need to go into being able to script in advance the sort of mistakes you make when programming would be astronomic. You would have to never make a typo when you weren't supposed to, always make a typo when you are, somehow deal with the fact that when you get stuck you need to b…

If he doesn't feel like public feedback would be helpful, then why is he streaming about it? That doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm not entitled to shit, but he's also not entitled to a platform. He's a game designer. He's released games. If he wants to talk about games design, I'm all ears.

Re: My least favorite Rust type

#56

Post by the_hoser »

saagarjha wrote: post #52
the_hoser wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can make a python script that prints out stuff while I'm streaming, too. He hasn't demonstrated squat. But, let's say he does have a working compiler. It's very probable that he does. Why doesn't he release it, then? Well you see, the only way it's possible to really effectively criticize a programming language is to use it. By not releasing the compiler, he avoids real criticism. So, no, I don't take him seriously…

> I can make a python script that prints out stuff while I'm streaming, too. He hasn't demonstrated squat. Creating a Python script that makes it look like you have an actual compiler is harder than you think it is. > At best, he's scared of criticism, but wants to be able to criticize others. At worst, he's a fraud. I wouldn't say he is scared of criticism, more like he is not yet at the state that he wants to accep…

If he doesn't want to accept criticism then why is he streaming about it?

Re: My least favorite Rust type

#57

Post by ratww »

the_hoser wrote: post #23
TheRealSteel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's reasonable to make a comment like this without explaining why. He has designed a programming language, so it seems fair to assume he'd have an understanding of programming language design.

You got a link for the compiler for said programming language?

I'm also not a fan of closed-source compilers (or fully closed, even worse), but it's unfair to disregard his work and opinions just because it's not publicly available.

Regardless of that, this is not a discussion about compilers or compiler design/programming, but rather about PL design, which are two different areas and disciplines.

Re: My least favorite Rust type

#58

Post by saagarjha »

the_hoser wrote: post #56
saagarjha wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can make a python script that prints out stuff while I'm streaming, too. He hasn't demonstrated squat. Creating a Python script that makes it look like you have an actual compiler is harder than you think it is. > At best, he's scared of criticism, but wants to be able to criticize others. At worst, he's a fraud. I wouldn't say he is scared of criticism, more like he is not yet at the state that he wants to accep…

If he doesn't want to accept criticism then why is he streaming about it?

So people can watch him develop software? The same reason why you might stream a "let's play" but not be interested in somebody commenting on how bad of a gamer you are?

Re: My least favorite Rust type

#59

Post by spatulon »

the_hoser wrote: post #23
TheRealSteel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's reasonable to make a comment like this without explaining why. He has designed a programming language, so it seems fair to assume he'd have an understanding of programming language design.

You got a link for the compiler for said programming language?

Can you think of a less snarky way of saying that he hasn't released it publicly yet?

Re: My least favorite Rust type

#60

Post by the_hoser »

saagarjha wrote: post #58
the_hoser wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he doesn't want to accept criticism then why is he streaming about it?

So people can watch him develop software? The same reason why you might stream a "let's play" but not be interested in somebody commenting on how bad of a gamer you are?

The issue is that he uses that platform to criticize other languages. That's my root problem, here. If all he did was write code, then nobody would care.
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