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Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

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Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#91
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not seeing that in the comments I'm seeing it everytime someone prefaces their comment with something along the lines of: "I'm not an Assange supporter But ..." in fact you're comment is really no different: > not supporting what Assange did, I didn't Are people worried the FBI will break down their door, if they don't put up the disclaimer?

They're signaling that publishing secrets is a crime; that's an objective fact, nobody is arguing against that I think. What's at stake here is whether the crime was justifiable and that it did more good (in exposing the US' war crimes) than bad (sharing state secrets and possibly risking informants). Disclaimer: superficial layman's take on matters.

>They're signaling that publishing secrets is a crime; that's an objective fact

Stating things are facts don't make them facts; thats an objective fact.

Anyway, I used to read Assange when he was more of a crypto/phreak, and he is, for lack of a better term, a bit of a fucking asshole. That said though, and I'm going to make a controversial statement here, but one I think is truthful, but the biggest problem now with the Assange case is the Russia-gate propaganda added him to the list, so now a large swath of people who would normally support him now still off the cuff beleive he "helped Trump" by "working with the Russians" (or some variation thereof), and because the Russiagate narrative is now so entrenched in the left, it causes a huge cognitive dissonance where they are more likely to choose the mob/tribe over principle. It's worth noting that this can also be considered a survival technique in this cancel culture world, so I try not to judge too harshly, it just gets tiring hearing the disinfo about Assange repeated ad nauseum.

Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not have a good opinion of Julian Assange or of Wikileaks, and I am not afraid to say it. At best it has been an unwitting tool of Russian disinformation campaigns; just as likely it is complicit. One must also wonder why Assange spends so much time talking to folks like Sean Hannity, Dana Rohrbacher, and Charles C. Johnson. https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/09/19/wherein-wikileaks-brag...

No matter what anyone's opinion on Assange is, it is clear that he still deserves a fair trial. And given the public's lack of access to the proceedings, as well as Nils Melzer's testimony, it is clear that that isn't what he is getting.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24544590

Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not have a good opinion of Julian Assange or of Wikileaks, and I am not afraid to say it. At best it has been an unwitting tool of Russian disinformation campaigns; just as likely it is complicit. One must also wonder why Assange spends so much time talking to folks like Sean Hannity, Dana Rohrbacher, and Charles C. Johnson. https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/09/19/wherein-wikileaks-brag...

No matter what anyone's opinion on Assange is, it is clear that he still deserves a fair trial. And given the public's lack of access to the proceedings, as well as Nils Melzer's testimony, it is clear that that isn't what he is getting.

Yes, well my opinions on Assange are independent of my opinion of the trial.

Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amnesty has the same access as the rest of the public.

No, the article explains their remote access was revoked (unlike many other public observers).

>We've made 3 applications requesting recognition as expert fair trial monitors. Judge states that no 'special provision' will be made for our trial monitor's attendance,”

They requested they get special status as "fair trial monitors". The judge said they get treated like everyone else.

They should have no better access than you or I. They are nobody - a group that got together to push their agenda. They have no standing in court different from any other member of the public.

They can monitor the trial without some special recognition.

Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would make it possible to record the stream. The UK legal system is very apprehensive of allowing any recording of what takes place in a courtroom that isn't filtered through a human observer's memory.

The audio is always recorded and transcribed at a Crown Court. The transcriptions are a permanent record. This is why for example if a witness nods to affirm something they'll be asked to actually say "Yes" out loud if that's what they meant.

Yes, but the transcriptions are not published. You have no right to see them.

There is no objective public record of English trials.

Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you referring to? Maybe it's different abroad, but this untouchability isn't present in the US, where journalists quite regularly express support for Assange. The New York Times is on record calling the effort to prosecute him a "strike at the very foundation of the free press".

The NY Times has a history of trying to smear Assange. The day after they began publishing the Iraq and Afghan War Logs, provided to them by Assange, the NY Times prominently ran a hit piece about Assange. Here's the opening: > Julian Assange moves like a hunted man. In a noisy Ethiopian restaurant in London’s rundown Paddington district, he pitches his voice barely above a whisper to foil the Western intelligence ag…

I just fundamentally disagree with your characterization of "hit piece" here. The personality and behavior of a source is very relevant information, especially when they're vouching for the authenticity of leaked documents. Maybe his behavior was a reasonable reaction to legitimate fears, but that's a judgment call that readers of the NYT should be able to make for themselves - reporters should not be in the business of strategically hiding information to ensure readers reach the right conclusions.

Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#97
post #82
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with Assagne is the fact that the US managed to assasinate his character with the swedish rape accusations dropped last year (after 10 years). They managed to make him untouchable , as journalists would have had to argue to show support for a "supposed rapist". There is an excellent interview in german with the United Nations' Special Rapporteur on Torture about him that was very revealing: https:…

Yeah, but for the fact that Melzer is full of shit. He's basically a demagogue; making many vague, unsubstantiated, unverifiable or nonfalsifiable claims. Turns out that Melzer's only concrete accusation is based on a misreading of evidence at best; the one against the Swedish police, of how they supposedly tampered with (even fabricated ) one of the testimonies. The evidence for that is inconclusive, Melzer was poss…

The United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment is demagogue? Pretty bug accusations. And downplaying rape? Did Assange force or drug the women to have sex with him?

Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter what anyone's opinion on Assange is, it is clear that he still deserves a fair trial. And given the public's lack of access to the proceedings, as well as Nils Melzer's testimony, it is clear that that isn't what he is getting.

Yes, well my opinions on Assange are independent of my opinion of the trial.

Curiously enough, people in your position rarely feel the need to share their supposedly different opinions of the trial.

Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#99

I am baffled to see that the majority of the comments here are at best showing no support for what Assange did and at worst are trying to find excuses not to be disturbed in their belief that since we are in a democracy hence everything that's happening is normal. I thought the people here had a sharper political view on what kind of society we could/should live in but I just read people that are always in a hurry to…

I do not have a good opinion of Julian Assange or of Wikileaks, and I am not afraid to say it. At best it has been an unwitting tool of Russian disinformation campaigns; just as likely it is complicit. One must also wonder why Assange spends so much time talking to folks like Sean Hannity, Dana Rohrbacher, and Charles C. Johnson. https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/09/19/wherein-wikileaks-brag...

You only think that journalists you agree with politically should be able to have free speech and practice journalism?

Re: Why are Amnesty International monitors not able to observe the Assange hearing?

#100
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not have a good opinion of Julian Assange or of Wikileaks, and I am not afraid to say it. At best it has been an unwitting tool of Russian disinformation campaigns; just as likely it is complicit. One must also wonder why Assange spends so much time talking to folks like Sean Hannity, Dana Rohrbacher, and Charles C. Johnson. https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/09/19/wherein-wikileaks-brag...

You only think that journalists you agree with politically should be able to have free speech and practice journalism?

Non-sequitur. It is a non-sequitur because I was not expressing an opinion of the trial but of Julian Assange and Wikileaks. My post was a response to the parent post which expressed angst that no-one was supporting Julian Assange and Wikileaks; and I was stating my opinion about Assange's actions. I knew full well that a whole bunch of fanboys would start downvoting the hell out of me, or posting irrelevant responses, like your own. Because that's what they do.
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