I no longer build software • Hacker News Board

Re: I no longer build software

#181

Post by burntoutfire » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #115

vlovich123 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done almost 0 web development at 3 of the FAANGs and am quite satisfied with the pay. I don’t think web would have paid better. I’ve done OS type work (system daemons, libraries etc), embedded, mobile, etc. Then there are people who work on compilers, image recognition, AI, browsers, server work of all kinds, etc etc. the variety, depth, and scale of work is much larger than web and can pay better as it can re…

That's cool but the thing is FAANGs are absent in most countries outside of the 2 US coasts and a few major tech hubs in Europe. Everywhere else, most of the SW industry is just CRUD/build-an-API-for-this-shitty-JSON type of work. Compiler/AI work and the rest exists where I live as well but it's strictly in academia, not in private companies and has a high barrier of entry as it's mostly PhDs or post-docs and is als…

Don't know why this was downvoted. As someone living in Europe, this comment is exactly why I stay in my cushy, very well paying and super boring and frustrating backend job. In the backend world, there are dozens of employees who would be happy for me to come work for them, while market for interesting work with similar is very shallow here (a very limited selection of FAANGs, what else?). I don't want to move to the US (mostly because the US visas seem designed mainly for people in much worse situations that I currently am) and the European market is just too shallow to build any more advanced coding career - unless you're ok with low salaries, little savings and coding until you're 60+ years old. I don't love coding that much.

Re: I no longer build software

#182

Post by Jenz » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

mauvehaus wrote: post #153

pliftkl wrote: post #8

This made me laugh, because I actually am planning on making a transition to woodworking. My house is paid off, and I can live on a fairly small income that I can probably generate mostly from passive income. If I can actually supplement that with building furniture, bonus. If not, then I still get to build furniture.

As a warning, you're eventually going to run out of places to put that furniture if you don't sell some of it! I'm the OP on that github issue, and while my partner and still have some IKEA furniture I'd like to replace, we also have a couple of pieces of mine that don't fit readily into our lives that we just have around the house. The chandelier on my website[0] was a spec piece built for a show at the Wharton Eshe…

The software developer turned woodworker keeps reading HN? :P

Re: I no longer build software

#183

Post by senko » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #178

jb1991 wrote: post #20

Amen. Modern software development is frankly kinda sucky. The old days pre-2000 were arguably a lot more enjoyable. Today it's just digital plumbing and dealing with all sorts of issues that are not creative. The sheer complexity is frankly absurd as well. I've thought about moving on from software many times, and I know many who have. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's best way to spend your short l…

I don't recall it being any better pre-2000. Frankly the tools really sucked back then. Build systems and IDEs were awful. Just go play with an autotools-based C project sometime to remind/education yourself. Visual Studio 7, horrible. No mainstream refactoring IDEs to speak of. C++ compilers across multiple platforms were horrible at standards compliance consistency, and you could barely get a working STL, practical…

> Just go play with an autotools-based C project sometime to remind/education yourself.

Funny you should mention autotools. It reminds me a lot of webpack, especially in the way nobody[0] really understands how it works, but you search around for examples and copy/paste what works for you.

[0] a hyperbole; i'm sure someone does, just as I'm sure some people dreamt of M4 macros back in the day

Re: I no longer build software

#184

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:08 PM UTC

burntoutfire wrote: post #181

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool but the thing is FAANGs are absent in most countries outside of the 2 US coasts and a few major tech hubs in Europe. Everywhere else, most of the SW industry is just CRUD/build-an-API-for-this-shitty-JSON type of work. Compiler/AI work and the rest exists where I live as well but it's strictly in academia, not in private companies and has a high barrier of entry as it's mostly PhDs or post-docs and is als…

Don't know why this was downvoted. As someone living in Europe, this comment is exactly why I stay in my cushy, very well paying and super boring and frustrating backend job. In the backend world, there are dozens of employees who would be happy for me to come work for them, while market for interesting work with similar is very shallow here (a very limited selection of FAANGs, what else?). I don't want to move to th…

Where do you live in Europe if I may ask that pays well enough for backend dev as not to work until you're 60?

Genuinely curious as I'm open to a move.

Re: I no longer build software

#185

Post by mauvehaus » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:08 PM UTC

jamil7 wrote: post #2

The golden handcuffs are real, good on him for getting out.

I'm the OP on that github issue. Put it this way: I'm building furniture for money, but I can't claim to be making a living at it yet. I'm fortunate to have a supportive partner and that we've moved to somewhere with a lower cost of living than Boston.

We ran through a budgeting exercise a couple of years ago before I made the career change, and besides housing, our single biggest expense is health insurance.

I've always lived cheaply, and it's let me take advantage of opportunities as they come up (I paid for school with money saved from working in software), but it's still a big transition going from two white collar jobs to one. I'm grateful that my partner and I both value the flexibility we get from living frugally.

Re: I no longer build software

#186

Post by Igelau » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:08 PM UTC

snazz wrote: post #169

jacquesm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I take chopping off my finger in a heartbeat I wouldn't make so light of that.

Totally off-topic, but the automatic blade brakes on modern table saws are really cool. It runs a current through the blade, so when something moist like your finger or a hot dog gets too close (maybe using capacitance?), it automatically drops the blade and instantly stops it with a single-use brake mechanism. Better to destroy the $100 blade-and-brake assembly than to lose a finger.

How am I supposed to cut my hot dogs now?

Re: I no longer build software

#187

Post by fsloth » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:09 PM UTC

lukaszkups wrote: post #71

jnwatson wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I‘ve been programming for over 35 years now and have mostly avoided doing web stuff. It is quite possible.

how? SAP/ERP consulting?

Not OP but I've focused on C++ , computational geometry and graphics programming for over a decade. That field is still quite thriving. You just need to work actively to find the right employers - and they are not as common as 'more regular type' of programming gigs.

Not sure if I would make more doing webdev, but am not in US so it would be normal middle-class income anyway.

Re: I no longer build software

#188

Post by emerged » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:10 PM UTC

axegon_ wrote: post #95

Strangely enough, to a degree I envy this guy. I've been at my current job for over 8 years and up until a few months ago I was pretty happy. However politics caught up and I decided to leave. At the moment I have a few offers on the table, one of which is from a company somewhere in the FAANG realm. Senior software engineer, awesome conditions, very generous paycheck, lots of benefits. So tempted by all this I said…

Yea there's absolutely no way I'd give a company or their goons permission to invade my privacy like that. Disturbing that companies are even allowed to get away with that without a class action law suit.

Re: I no longer build software

#189

Post by DarkWiiPlayer » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:10 PM UTC

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #164

axegon_ wrote: post #95

Strangely enough, to a degree I envy this guy. I've been at my current job for over 8 years and up until a few months ago I was pretty happy. However politics caught up and I decided to leave. At the moment I have a few offers on the table, one of which is from a company somewhere in the FAANG realm. Senior software engineer, awesome conditions, very generous paycheck, lots of benefits. So tempted by all this I said…

> pulling comments and likes on things which can be considered "inappropriate" and "offensive" > That alone is enough for me to turn down the offer > I take chopping off my finger in a heartbeat You would rather lose a finger that work in a company that has strict very rules around offensive behavior? ...

Uh... I don't think you understand the problem. A company going though your private social media is a big no-no. It's as if they'd call your friends and family and ask them "Has OP ever said or done anything offensive?".

It's none of their concern and the fact that they even try this shit is a massive red flag. If they don't respect your privacy before they hire you, they won't magically start respecting it afterwards.

Even setting that aside, a company policing what employees say in private, regardless of whether or not they find out about it actively or passively, is absurd. An employer does not get to decide what you say, do or think in your free time.

-----

EDIT: As a small extra, here in Germany something like this would be very much illegal, as you're not allowed to discriminate against job applicants based on their political opinion.

Re: I no longer build software

#190

Post by analog31 » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:10 PM UTC

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #168

It seems like nowadays you just can't make money building interesting things anymore. Most of the available programming work is really just writing glue code to make big software systems work as intended, to the point where it can feel more like writing configuration files than actual programming. Put simply, 98% of programming these days is scripting. On the other hand, you have lots of fun things one can do with co…

This could just be an outgrowth of complexity. As the number of pieces increases by O(n), the number of relationships between pieces goes as O(n^2). As a result, any endeavor is going to tend towards the majority of people working on connecting pieces.

This is true in plenty of occupations. I've seen it in mechanical and electrical design, for instance. With that said, I know a lot of good people who actually enjoy the work of piecing things together, so I wouldn't disparage it. Something for everybody.

A pleasure of working on something for fun at home, or maybe in an R&D setting, is that it can start out a lot simpler.