I no longer build software • Hacker News Board

Re: I no longer build software

#141

Post by httpne » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

I personally think programming is a terrible job. In these threads, there are always people who say "it isn't programming, it is x", where x is "poor management", "the fact that it is a job", "the type of programming you are doing", etc, etc.

It isn't, it is programming. Anyway, I want to go one step further and return to a more ancient living style. I don't want things like artificial light, computers, etc, to be a significant part of my life. The best time I have ever had, even to this day, was when all of those things didn't exist.

Re: I no longer build software

#142

Post by cowmix » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

Look, software always sucked and has always been enjoyable. It depends on where you are on your personal journey. I've been around long enuff to have suffered true burn-out more than a few time.

When I take the 30K view, in the almost 40 years I've been tinkering with software, people have never had it so good. Super enterprise grade software is available to tinker with, for free, and can run on your freakin' phone. If you want to go super low level and screw with assembly language, knock yourself out.

Re: I no longer build software

#143

Post by intotheabyss » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

I'm a mechanical engineer in aerospace looking to move to software. I like the idea of setting up an office at home and working for myself. Is software really this bad, as all of the comments here suggest? Should I make the jump to software from a career in which I have a decade of experience? I just find aerospace boring, unimaginative, stressful and low paying, and if I could work on just building code for web apps or whatever, I'd much rather do that, even if the pay was 'only' 50k per year, but with the benefit of working for myself.

Re: I no longer build software

#144

Post by secondcoming » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #40

secondcoming wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too would love to do it. It irks me to this day that I was taught nonsense such as latin in school instead of woodwork or metalwork.

Serious question, didn't anyone else' school have shop class? I was a college prep, NHS, cross country, all AP core courses kind of guy, and I took it all four years of high school. Or was there some kind of restriction on taking it at your school? Or maybe your parents didn't let you? Genuinely curious as to why someone with a professed interest would not have taken shop?

It was only offered in certain types of secondary school. Mine was considered 'posh' and so we wore blazers and learned latin, whereas other schools didn't have blazers and offered 'trade' subjects.

Re: I no longer build software

#145

Post by throwaway8941 » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

This is a privileged position to take. IT is one of the very few ways to have a relatively decent life in my third world (well, technically second world) country, especially for those of us who can't rely on nepotism to put them in a comfortable place.

Sure, I can go make furniture out of wood for $150 a month (and I did at some point in my life), but I'd rather keep my cushy lifestyle and stare at a screen for 16 hours a day, thank you very much.

Re: I no longer build software

#146

Post by seanwilson » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:48 PM UTC

sbarre wrote: post #15

vbezhenar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, writing software in 3-rd world country is a reliable way to get out of the poverty. Some example numbers for Kazakhstan: average salary for many low-skilled labour workers is around $100-$200 per month. Average salary for junior software developer is at least $500 and you would quickly reach $1000 and very skilled developers might get $2000+ per month. The same is true for Russia or Belarus or Ukr…

> It's not like any random software developer can go remote and compete with the rest of the world This is actually becoming more and more of an option. At my last (small) company, we hired several individual remote developers from various parts of the world that most would consider "third world". We were introduced to them via referrals from contract work done elsewhere, and we did a paid trial period at first. Not…

> > It's not like any random software developer can go remote and compete with the rest of the world

> This is actually becoming more and more of an option.

To do this though, you generally have to know how to market yourself, put together proposals, gather requirements, design and project manage, on top of coding. Not every coder is good at this or wants to be.

Re: I no longer build software

#147

Post by lxrbst » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:49 PM UTC

While I occasionally dream about working on cars or motorcycles at times instead of sitting in front of a computer all day, I think we tend to forget how good of a career developing is.

When we picture our dream of doing a simple trade, we only think of the most awesome part of that trade. If I'm a car mechanic, most of it too is just trivial oil and tire changes or changing a basic part of two - not working on engines in depth.

Same with programming. We would want to build something cool from the ground up, but we are just piping stuff from a lib to another.

Comparing woodworking to corporate code is unfair anyway. I'd rather compare working at a furniture factory to corporate code, and woodworking to a solo dev project.

Re: I no longer build software

#148

Post by httpne » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:49 PM UTC

hdjdbtbgwjsn wrote: post #103

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not to mention that sitting in front of a computer all day is not the best use of one's body. You can say that about all desk jobs(even bus drivers) since they all sit on a chair the whole day but at least in some cases we get paid better and have more free time to take care of ourselves. And unlike the bus driver, I can leave work or take a coffee/toilet break whenever I want. And labor jobs that don't require sitt…

Personal trainer is fairly bad for your body and wellbeing as well. Its basically split shifts since clients want training either before or after their work. So sleep is an issue. If work was easy then we wouldn't need to be paid for it.

>If work was easy then we wouldn't need to be paid for it.

"work" in its natural sense is indistinguishable from play. Animals play as a way to practice "work". Lions etc play hunt. The problem is that "work" in modern times has little to do with what we are genetically-inclined to want to do.

Re: I no longer build software

#149

Post by Chris2048 » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:50 PM UTC

The question is, why is it all so BS.

I think the answer is, whenever you get to any kind of scale, you leave the logical world of engineering discipline, and enter the corporate world of product infighting. Who hasn't tried a small, personal project just as a clean walled-garden-of-the-mind to relax in, free from the reality of real software. I think every SWEs dream is that all software will be just as clean.

But Companies don't create frameworks to improve or optimise, they create them to own and dominate. The airwaves are bought and sold by private concerns. specs and APIs are hidden, "amazing journeys" are had by the few on the back of the many, and we end up as the paid expert tinkerers of the war-machines of someone else's empire.

The FLOSS question is more important now than ever: How can we fix the social and economic systems of hard/soft-ware, and complex systems in general, to end up with flawless, frictionless sci-fi engineering impossibilities, rather than the janky, baroque "modern web".

Re: I no longer build software

#150

Post by selfhoster11 » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 12:50 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #80

jordache wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it pays well for as a job, what else can you ask for? Unless you are independently wealthy, how can one be so picky as to complain about the nuances of software development at the tooling/dependency management level? Sheesh Look at the broader job market. Compare the pros n' cons of any career against software development. Compare the barrier to entry, demand, and other market conditions. Software dev comes out pr…

You must be in your twenties. Software development can be a uniquely depressing kind of work. All the complexity, which can be compensated for with youthful vigor, can eventually become so overwhelming and exhausting that you will need a break. Money isn't everything. If you can do a job that pays less but doesn't depress you as much, you probably should go for it. You won't keep your job as a developer forever anywa…

Money isn't everything, but without it there isn't much that you can do to sustain yourself. I'm privileged to be where I am today, and I keep this at the forefront of my mind as I see people struggling in jobs that are all about physical labour or the service sector, if they have a job at all (or are on zero-hour contracts). Choosing a job is something that only select people have as an option, in the grand picture.