Headlines as expected despite Vallance saying "this is not a prediction".
The Guardian at least says "could". Bit of a fumble from BBC.
Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
21–30 of 62 posts
Re: Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could this have been prevented? China was only able to act fast because of the authoritarianism (bolting people indoors) and the global supply chain is sat in their backyard, not necessarily because they're making the right investment upfront.
Taiwan and Korea also managed. In mainland China authoritarianism played a part but people made a lot of efforts by themselves, not out of fear, like in Taiwan and Korea. I think that's one of the main problems we're having in the UK. Too many people have zero civic sense and complain about their "freedoms being infringed" instead seeing the big picture that in an epidemic everyone must act together for the group at…
But those are vastly different countries, there are far too many variables to unpack before making a conclusive decision.
Freedoms are being infringed, but I do understand the need to sacrifice. We're not being asked for a lot compared to previous generations.
What we do need is real leadership though and lack of leadership is causing people to check out of caring about the virus. People would care a lot more if they believed their government had a plan.
Re: Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. I still can't believe how un-Tory our Tory government has been, and yet still they're The Worst of The Worst in the minds of those with strong opinions. I don't much like our political classes, but I really wouldn't want to be in their shoes this year.
As an actual Tory (not popular around here I'll admit) I'm amazed at how Boris' attempt to make everyone happy has resulted in across the board hate. It's the same mistake that Theresa May made, so surely you'd think he'd understand that.
The problem with the current government is they're failing at the basics. There were obvious things that could have been done but weren't that should have made everyone happy because they really aren't (party) political issues. Like mandating mask use back in February. Or allocating funds for PPE to companies that are actually capable of producing it. I heard a government minister on the radio the other day saying they hadn't anticipated the increase in demand for testing when schools went back. How did they not anticipate that!? Anybody with half a braincell could have told you that. They deserve all the hate they're getting for sheer incompetence.
Re: Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
#24Freedom of association, movement and commerce should never have been surrendered so willingly. Any argument against lockdown is branded as conspiracy theory or antivaxx
I don't think people saying that lockdowns come at a terrible cost are being labelled conspiracy theorists. That isn't even in question. The problem is that for your argument being as effective as you like it to be, you have to downplay the risk of the virus without action, which usually means you have to accuse a big group of people (medical professionals, scientists, politicians) of lying.
Re: Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Taiwan and Korea also managed. In mainland China authoritarianism played a part but people made a lot of efforts by themselves, not out of fear, like in Taiwan and Korea. I think that's one of the main problems we're having in the UK. Too many people have zero civic sense and complain about their "freedoms being infringed" instead seeing the big picture that in an epidemic everyone must act together for the group at…
But those are vastly different countries, there are far too many variables to unpack before making a conclusive decision. Freedoms are being infringed, but I do understand the need to sacrifice. We're not being asked for a lot compared to previous generations. What we do need is real leadership though and lack of leadership is causing people to check out of caring about the virus. People would care a lot more if they…
They are only vastly different compared to us in the sense that they had a plan and that they implemented it early and decisively as one.
> Freedoms are being infringed, but I do understand the need to sacrifice.
That's the point, isn't it? To understand that individual freedoms, and individualism, are not absolute and can be reduced temporarily when necessary.
Re: Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Boris was handed a large majority and could have played to his side only. Choosing not to do this was an obvious error but, in a age where the media are setting the daily narrative, I can understand why.
Eh... Boris' job is literally to make decisions, some of which may be intensely unpopular or criticised by the media. Being spineless is not a vote winner.
I thought I was, more or less, saying this?
Re: Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could this have been prevented? China was only able to act fast because of the authoritarianism (bolting people indoors) and the global supply chain is sat in their backyard, not necessarily because they're making the right investment upfront.
> Could this have been prevented Yes, tens of thousands of deaths could have been prevented. South Korea has a population of a similar size to the UK (51 vs 65 million), and have had approximately 400 deaths due to Covid compared to 40,000 in the UK.
I know that it's really appealing to compare countries, but it seems to me that it's simply really difficult to do that in a constructive way, without accounting for all the differences between them. I would imagine (though I couldn't easily find statistics on this) that the UK has far more people flying in and out of, thus making it more susceptible. Conversely, S Korea has a far higher (average, and perhaps clusters are the real issue) population density. The economic and political setup will naturally have a big impact (e.g. federal vs. non, market economy vs. planned etc.) on a country's ability to react. And finally, the statistics are calculated differently, and so we're not comparing two of the same measures.
None of this is to say that I believe the UK has performed well.
Re: Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. I still can't believe how un-Tory our Tory government has been, and yet still they're The Worst of The Worst in the minds of those with strong opinions. I don't much like our political classes, but I really wouldn't want to be in their shoes this year.
Yeah, but if you compare them to Italy (hardly a stereotypical example of good administration), it's a pretty stark contrast. Italians made their mistakes too (last month in Sardinia, for example), their government is not even monolithic in terms of parties, but after early March they've contained it much better than we did. We had almost a month of head-start, we didn't use it, and now we're not even like them - we…
As I've been saying to everyone (including my Italian partner whose stated much the same opinion as you have) - I don't think anyone can point to any state and declare with any assurance "They got it right!" and I don't think we'll be able to until this time next year at least.
To herd or not to herd? To hide or not to hide? What risk is acceptable, and in what domains - social? Emotional? Economic? No one knows, but everyone still has opinions (myself included!).
Re: Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
#29What's the betting the UK Government puts off action until comfortably after the ideal time to enforce restrictions once more?
They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. I still can't believe how un-Tory our Tory government has been, and yet still they're The Worst of The Worst in the minds of those with strong opinions. I don't much like our political classes, but I really wouldn't want to be in their shoes this year.
I suspect “not wanting to be in their shoes this year” is exactly why the level of competence is so low. The competent looked at the situation the UK was in even before Corona started competing with Brexit for public attention, and decided to let someone else to take the blame.
Re: Covid-19: UK faces 50k cases a day by October without action
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
But those are vastly different countries, there are far too many variables to unpack before making a conclusive decision. Freedoms are being infringed, but I do understand the need to sacrifice. We're not being asked for a lot compared to previous generations. What we do need is real leadership though and lack of leadership is causing people to check out of caring about the virus. People would care a lot more if they…
They are only vastly different compared to us in the sense that they had a plan and that they implemented it early and decisively as one. > Freedoms are being infringed, but I do understand the need to sacrifice. That's the point, isn't it? To understand that individual freedoms, and individualism, are not absolute and can be reduced temporarily when necessary.
> That's the point, isn't it? To understand that individual freedoms, and individualism, are not absolute and can be reduced temporarily when necessary.
Yes and no.
An individual right/freedom is immutable. It's not something "granted" to us by government, and not something they should be able to take away.
I understand the need for emergency measures, but in my opinion the government should've gotten consent before continuing this for months on end. There is a balance to be had here.
It's not a sacrifice if it's not a choice.
We now know the government doesn't have an exit strategy, so we could be stuck in this state for many more months to come. This is espet alarming when you consider people are missing NHS appointments (e.g. cancer diagnosis) or the serious economic issues. Serious fallout is coming.