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Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

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Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#281

Post by lhorie »

tatrajim wrote: post #123

Honest question for Chinese users of WeChat: have you ever thought twice about WeChat posts and communications, whether they'll be deemed "acceptable" to censors? Everyone I know self-censors nearly constantly, if unconsciously. A good example: in a discussion of this case I was reading today in Chinese the author ironically noted that he couldn't summarize the US government's position because in a large WeChat group…

I don't use wechat myself but my wife is chinese. From what she tells me, many of her mainland china childhood friends, (including those she considered progressive) strongly disagree with many ideas americans consider fundamentally correct.

For example, it's pretty normal for Americans to bicker about politics and criticize the government, especially because of its highly polarized political landscape.

Many mainland chinese vehemently defend the idea that the government is truly representative of the people (similar to how the US constitution envisioned the state being a true representation of the People)

Debating that the government is an evil brainwashing machine with these people would be akin to coming out as gay in a conservative religious family, i.e. it would be bound to negatively affect relationships

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#282

Post by dang »

controversy wrote: post #252
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. At least you're saying the quiet parts loud and clear now.

You should read my profile. Thank you.

Single purpose accounts aren't ok on HN, and obviously not when the purpose is ideological battle, so we've banned this one. Please don't create accounts to break the site guidelines with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#283

Post by chug »

ineedasername wrote: post #274

This is why it needs to be dealt with via data privacy laws, not a one-off shoot-from-the-hip bit of executive action. Privacy laws with escalating penalties up to a ban would accomplish the same thing, not just for for the high-profile panic examples of the moment, but for problems of this sort in general.

If it truly is a national security concern and not politics, this should be the obvious conclusion. How do we know some Facebook employee isn't siphoning data to the CCP right now? How do we know the US won't someday abuse the data Facebook/Google/whoever are collecting? The data is either weaponizable or it's not, and if it is weaponizable (and I believe it is), this needs to be a much larger discussion than TikTok and WeChat.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#284

Post by dang »

augustt wrote: post #198
controversy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. At this point, both blacks and Indians are able to take various Federal and State monies to be the best they can be. The Indians have relative sovereignty. They could take their federal and casino monies and plow them into an R&D bonanza. Blacks in the US have a golden ticket to pretty much any institution they wish to attend. Both have had trillions of US dollars plowed into their communities over the year v…

Yeah honestly what more could these people want - it's not like people are calling them Indians to this day or suggesting they can't think freely enough to "escape" the Democratic "plantation". Read some books not written by Candace Owens you tool.

You can't post like this regardless of how bad another account is. It's against the site rules because it destroys the commons, which helps no one and makes nothing better.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and not post in the flamewar style generally, we'd be grateful.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#285

Post by 8note »

tatrajim wrote: post #86
wombatmobile wrote: post #16

When trying to understand China's commercial policies which America is supposedly retaliating against, consider that China has experienced a different mercantile history to America. America has never been invaded by foreign gunships and forced to allow foreign merchants to import opium to addict its citizens in order to fix their own countries balance of payments problems. Opium Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opi…

How long is China going to put on the mantle of victimhood over events 160 years in the past?! By that standard surely Korea can complain endlessly about China and Yuan Shikai lording it over their kingdom in the 1880s, and the Czechs can cry over their subjugation for centuries by Austria-Hungary, etc. etc. In 1949 Mao Zedong famously declared "China has stood up." Apparently though he meant, "We're such a weak peop…

China's still not regained sovereignty that was lost during that time. Eg: Hong kong

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#286

Post by 8note »

valuearb wrote: post #61
wombatmobile wrote: post #16

When trying to understand China's commercial policies which America is supposedly retaliating against, consider that China has experienced a different mercantile history to America. America has never been invaded by foreign gunships and forced to allow foreign merchants to import opium to addict its citizens in order to fix their own countries balance of payments problems. Opium Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opi…

The war of 1812 was fought because Great Britain had spent a decade boarding US ships to impress US sailors into their navy, controlling US trade, and funding Native American attacks on US settlers.

You missed the part where the US wanted Canada

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#287

Post by Abhinav2000 »

YarickR2 wrote: post #101
Abhinav2000 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We are in a new cold war, anybody who is naively supporting or defending chinese interests in America needs to wake up

So does ends justify means ?

We are not killing anyone or hurting any chinese, just making sure China does not control the world - ie hurting their top brass financially and strategically

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#288

Post by jjeaff »

codedokode wrote: post #267
propogandist wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The difference between TikTok and WeChat and FB/Google/Twitter is obvious: the former are to some degree controlled by China and the latter are private entities. to some degree? No, they are completely controlled by China. > "WeChatApp spies on the content that all users send to each other, including Americans. The results are fed into their censorship of Chinese users" [1] - Key findings rom the Citizen lab researc…

And at the same time FB/Google/Twitter are controlled by US government. If they do something "wrong", they get called to Congress to talk and change their mind. This is not what a truly independent company would do. Truly independent company would tell Congress to mind their own business and not bother them.

Can you point to any changes whatsoever that any of these companies made as a result of showing up for an episode of congressional theater?

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#289

Post by roywiggins »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #256
bscphil wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could block WeChat from app stores, which would basically be fatal. Especially for iPhone users, who don't even have the option to sideload without jailbreaking. This is an interesting argument against walled gardens I don't often see: that it gives your government an easy chokepoint to prevent users from using software it doesn't like.

Facebook is not listed on the Chinese App Store, but you can install it easily by switching your region to the USA, installing Facebook, and then switching your region back to China, without losing apps from either region. (I know this because I owned an iPhone while living in China) Much easier than having to bother with a VPN, and many Chinese people are already used to jumping through such hoops.

China puts up with it for whatever reason, but the US doesn't have to. The US can just as easily order Apple and Google to remove it from every region of every app store.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#290

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

"The U.S. has claimed that WeChat is a threat because its owner, Tencent Holdings Ltd., is intertwined with the Chinese Communist Party, which can use the app to disseminate propaganda, track users, and steal their private and proprietary data. It's a similar argument that the administration has used to target the TikTok app, while also forcing a sale of that app's U.S. operations."

Why does the issue have to be framed as being with the "owner" instead of the "conduct". The conduct being "to disseminate propaganda, track users, and steal their private and proprietary data". It seems reasonable that such conduct should be always a "threat", regardless of where the "tech" company is domiciled.

Let's regulate propaganda (advertising), tracking users and stealing users' private and proprietary data.

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